Really very sad with France!

[Friendsoftheearth]

I am quietly furious with France. We have been going to France between three and four times a year, every year for pretty much all of my adult life. We have spent most summer holidays, skiing and all the rest, choosing France as our destination over all over countries.

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils, and we are very big fans of France and French cuisine.

Even taking into account that Macron should hope and push for the best deal for their fishing industry, I still find it incredulous and insulting that they should be demanding ten years of fish, and are offering us a paltry percentage. Ten years.
They are in a total stand off regarding an even playing field, I understand the reasons for this, but honestly they are pushing all of us to a no deal outcome, that will see French fisherman with no catch whatsoever, and high tariffs slapped on all imports from France. Tourism will be destroyed as people will no longer wish to go there. It could poison relations for decades.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago, I am in despair at the eleventh hour demands, and feel this is in very bad faith. It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I feel like I never want to go again, despite having a tentative booking for a holiday in the spring of next year.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago

But they don't protect their borders so it still shows something about them and how naive we are.

Listened to a man on the radio who was furious that Macron was saying that no deal could decimate French fishing villages. He rightly pointed out that Hull used to be the biggest fishing port with hundreds of fishing boats, but now there was only one fishing boat - and that is in a museum.

I don’t understand why, given that fishing rights were sold and it’s up to the buyer to decide if they can be repurchased, there is so much emphasis on the rightness or wrongness of the decision that France and other countries needs to make.

Yes there will be repercussions either way but they hold the cards, and will do what’s best for them, just as you would if you’d bought something valuable that the seller would very much like back, but crucially doesn’t have a moral case to demand the repurchase.

It’s like, you sold some land, the deal was done 46 years ago. Your circumstances have changed. You can ask, of course, but that land’s a fertile farm now and there’s no moral obligation to sell.

Why turn it into Macron’s a monster, France is dead to us now? Come on.

@MrsMiaWallis

Try reading a French paper instead of the rags in Britain

😃😃 French newspapers are not bastions of fairness and impartiality

They are compared the garbage put out by UK newspapers like the Mail, Express, and Telegraph.

@Friendsoftheearth

I have always wondered if the anti British brigade on here are posting from overseas, or if they actually live here with that level of bitterness and revulsion for their own country?

I find it truly fascinating that you can live, and perhaps be born in a country that you find so repellent, that as an adult why on earth would you choose to stay here?

It makes no sense whatsoever. Either stay and champion your own interests and support the country, or leave and be happier. Festering is not good for the soul.

I think the SNP concur.

The UK is leaving the EU. Very very bad decision, and now you're seeing why.

There is no reason for any EU country to give the UK any quarter. We decided (however stupidly) to leave.

Good luck on the "reforming from within" to the Euro sceptic parties in other countries. If the EU had given an inch to David Cameron and even attempted to tackle the appalling use of public money I strongly believe we wouldn't be in this disastrous situation. The arrogance of the people behind the project has staggered me time and time again and that combined with a complete reluctance to change is what will bring down the EU long term in my opinion. And again I say that as someone who thinks that we should stay in for the common good.

Maybe we are older and wiser now, but I don't think it was unreasonable for millions of people to assume that high ranking politicians like Gove and Johnson knew what they were talking about

I think that to make such an assumption about any politician shows extreme naivety and lack of critical thinking. Johnson didn't even decide which side of the Brexit fence he was on until the referendum campaigns were about to start, he'd written two articles, one pro and one anti, then ripped one of them up.

Most politician are self-seeking careerists and they all serve different interests. Brexit is a gift to disaster capitalists, and the investment fund formerly run by Rees-Mogg stands to make a fortune by shorting the pound (which is currently trading at Eu 1.09 and will undoubtedly be at parity before long).

Until now the EU has never compromised, look at countries like Switzerland. The thing is the Germans/other more rational nations know that if we are to do a deal, which is in everyone's best interests, then they will need to compromise. Due to the huge financial implications of Corona for the whole of Europe, I do hope they will compromise this time. There is no point "punishing" the UK (the French are more emotional, more of a revolutionary spirit than say the Germans) as the leaver to make an example of them, because all will suffer from it. I think a deal will need to be done. And it was never going to be a great deal for the UK or the EU. It was always going to be at best a poor compromise for both sides.

@frumpety

We will see the Royal Navy patrolling the channel in a matter of weeks on a no deal, and that is just the start.

Hilarious ! Surely all the Royal navy vessels will be helping out the Fishery protection squadron ?

No, they'll be escorting the Covid vaccine.....

It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I'm sure they do now, kind of hard to argue with that too isn't it? I have little enough respect now for the ludicrous entity the UK has become and I'm actually British - god knows how much my estimation would have sunk if I was actually seeing this from mainland Europe.

You think the French should consider the UK before they consider themselves?

This is so telling - so much part of the reason we are in the mess we are in. It's like a nation-level case of racism or misogyny - a belief so inherent that you can't even see that you have it, that somehow the UK is more important, more powerful, more ABSOLUTE than all these other nations, they're kind of second really in the big map inside your head.

Too many people with that entrenched belief voting for Brexit because of course what the UK wants to do will just Happen Ok.

In my opinion at the heart of UK/EU schism is that we have different rules for negotiation. It's a cultural clash, one that really pushes our buttons. Taking an objective stance, you can't blame the French for acting in a way that is completely acceptable to their cultural rules. In Europe, we are in the minority in the way we understand negotiation and it is foolish to let a difference like this get in the way of centuries of peaceful and profitable trading

Do you mean Europeans negotiate fairly, adhering to their own rules and the law, while the British lie and cheat and refuse to stick to the agreements that they've already made? In which case, yes, you're right.

It's not cultural though, Ireland is culturally a lot closer to the UK than they are to France or Germany, and yet Ireland has no problem with telling the truth and keeping to agreements.

I agree whizz

The vote was a Nigel Farage pr stunt, where is he now? He won’t be around to clear up the mess

Where was he when the EU were discussing fishing rights when he was our MEP?

The man is a fucking crook and should be jailed for the damage he’s caused.

I have always wondered if the anti British brigade on here are posting from overseas, or if they actually live here with that level of bitterness and revulsion for their own country?

Also hilarious ! Bingo card filling up quickly.

It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country

Newsflash; it's not just France.

@Zilla1

You've persuaded me. And I'm not even in my chateau at the moment. I think the Mail and Telegraph captured it perfectly with the outrage about Brit's use of holiday homes being made harder. The EU are busy being spiteful. Do they not remember who won the war?

www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/couple-experience-political-awakening-after-hearing-about-brexit-pet-passport-changes-20201204203237

I can just see the DM frothing about this too

Klein, yes and all the future reality TV shows too. Still perhaps Australia/Yemen/Syria/Venezuela will become the location of choice under WTO (world TV organisation) rules for reality TV shows involving second (third? don't want to bother checking marital status and history) wives?

Either stay and champion your own interests and support the country, or leave and be happier.

Is what many people say in France, and I expect Macron is trying to appeal to these people. On balance he is probably more concerned with those people than the small number of people in the UK who might boycott French cheese (or even notice where their cheese is made).

I have always wondered if the anti British brigade on here are posting from overseas, or if they actually live here with that level of bitterness and revulsion for their own country?

I live here and was born here. I love the UK, which is why I'm so sad to see it committing such a terrible act of self harm which future generations will not forgive.

I have lived abroad before and will do so again if things get really bad (though sadly, my options are far more limited than they were pre-Brexit). However, I don't actually want to leave my elderly parents, the rest of my family or my friends. I would far prefer to stay in a UK that behaves in a reasonable and rational way. But perhaps that is too much to wish for...

@Friendsoftheearth

I have just spotted a fabulous holiday to the Maldives, it is cheaper than France with better weather in the spring, that may just do the job

Oh no! What will France do without you 😢

but I don't think it was unreasonable for millions of people to assume that high ranking politicians like Gove and Johnson knew what they were talking about

That just doesn't cut it. All the information was available that they did not in fact know what they were talking about. 5 minutes after that bus rolled out, we all knew the figures were wildly inaccurate...it's just that lots of people wouldn't listen an/or didn't care.

@LakieLady

Maybe we are older and wiser now, but I don't think it was unreasonable for millions of people to assume that high ranking politicians like Gove and Johnson knew what they were talking about

I think that to make such an assumption about any politician shows extreme naivety and lack of critical thinking. Johnson didn't even decide which side of the Brexit fence he was on until the referendum campaigns were about to start, he'd written two articles, one pro and one anti, then ripped one of them up.

Most politician are self-seeking careerists and they all serve different interests. Brexit is a gift to disaster capitalists, and the investment fund formerly run by Rees-Mogg stands to make a fortune by shorting the pound (which is currently trading at Eu 1.09 and will undoubtedly be at parity before long).

I remember trying to put family members off voting for Brexit by pointing out that the people who would be in charge of getting what they were promising were some of the worst and least competent people you could imagine. Deaf ears. They really couldn’t see that the quality wasn’t there, nor were they interested in who’d be gaining financially. I was hopeful that the civil service would shore up the lack of talent but that doesn’t seem to have happened.

No, they'll be escorting the Covid vaccine.....

And trying to stop Russian submarines from cutting power cables ?

Until now the EU has never compromised, look at countries like Switzerland. The thing is the Germans/other more rational nations know that if we are to do a deal, which is in everyone's best interests, then they will need to compromise. Due to the huge financial implications of Corona for the whole of Europe, I do hope they will compromise this time

We will see soon enough. The implications are huge for everyone. I have always liked and admired Merkel, maybe with your imput she can rein in Macron a little. I have to say the optics are not great for the EU.
I understand that Macron is now running the EU from Paris and not the commission if I was watching this play out overseas. When did Merkel lose her power I wonder.