Really very sad with France!

[Friendsoftheearth]

I am quietly furious with France. We have been going to France between three and four times a year, every year for pretty much all of my adult life. We have spent most summer holidays, skiing and all the rest, choosing France as our destination over all over countries.

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils, and we are very big fans of France and French cuisine.

Even taking into account that Macron should hope and push for the best deal for their fishing industry, I still find it incredulous and insulting that they should be demanding ten years of fish, and are offering us a paltry percentage. Ten years.
They are in a total stand off regarding an even playing field, I understand the reasons for this, but honestly they are pushing all of us to a no deal outcome, that will see French fisherman with no catch whatsoever, and high tariffs slapped on all imports from France. Tourism will be destroyed as people will no longer wish to go there. It could poison relations for decades.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago, I am in despair at the eleventh hour demands, and feel this is in very bad faith. It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I feel like I never want to go again, despite having a tentative booking for a holiday in the spring of next year.

The three sticking points have been there since the summer, we all know that - but last Wednesday it did seem that we were almost there with the deal, no one seems to be acknowledging just how close we were to an agreement on this thread - that is until Macron decided it was going too well, and stuck the boot in.

The worry is not so much the UK leaving on WTO, as I guess we will just get used to that in time, but the other EU countries and industries that will be massively impacted by Macron's stubborn position could jeopardise the whole of the EU and its unity. The Spanish exporter of ham, the Italian wine industry and all the rest, they will all suffer just because Macron overextended his hand. The consequences will continue for decades.

For those saying this was all part and parcel of the UK's plot to leave on a no deal, and that they always wanted to, I just don't believe that at all. It would be far better for the UK and EU to agree broadly a departure on friendly terms.
There will be years of poisonous relations with France if it uses its veto, that would not be good for anyone at all, especially those in France. Who wants to holiday on the backdrop of that kind of hatred and division? I certainly don't, and good luck to you if you still want to go.The division and resentment within the EU itself will be very damaging to the EU and perhaps long lasting.

Of course I am happy to book elsewhere for a holiday, and eat wonderful English cheese, but I rather hoped we would remain on civil terms with the French and the rest of the EU, and for decency to prevail. My concern is not just for the UK, but for the whole of EU now.

@Friendsoftheearth

At this stage I am really worried that the EU never had any intention of doing a deal of any kind, that this has been a colossal waste of time - and are just seeking to embarrass the UK with Johnson going there today, in precisely the same way they treated Theresa May.

In that situation, I am in no doubt the UK will walk and that will be the end.
We are about to find out if the EU are acting in good faith.

May and Johnson negotiated 2 different Withdrawl Agreements. Johnson is the one who went back on his word and decided it wasn't good enough when he read the small print. He's the one planning to break international law and shaft Northern Ireland which will in turn make a deal with the US impossible.

You should be angry at the ERG/Johnson/May. The referendum was in 2016- the details and potential problems should have been analyzed before 2020.

Why would the EU sacrifice the fishing industries of member states? The first rule of any divorce is that you will be financially worse off afterwards but also need to fight for what's fair.

@dreamingbohemian really? I'm was in remain but am deeply sceptical about the EU for many reasons. But anti EU sentiment is heavily on the rise - Italy in particular.

So France has a PM who wants to do what's best for his citizens...if only we could say the same we wouldn't be in this blimmin mess.

I do not understand what you are annoyed/sad about. The UK doesn't want to be in the club anymore. So the club is screwing us. Completely understandable because we don't contribute anything why should we get good deals? It's obviously far more complex than that but honestly what did people think would happen if we left the EU? Can't understand those who think this is a surprise.

I love France and would move in a heartbeat and would become a citizen if we could afford the healthcare ( both have LT conditions and had cancer so insurance is just too high)

Some good info on this thread. I was not aware England had sold 50% or thereabouts of its fishing rights to privately owned companies in the 1990s.

So are the UK/EU arguing about the remainder 50% or is the whole 100% being claimed back (I must say I am surprised the sale was in perpetuity)?

People on here do not like to admit that we have more in common with Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and the US

Speak for yourself. I feel a huge sense of affinity with mainland Europe. I also feel that I have a lot in common with people from Australia and NZ. Next to nothing in common with the US, other than language. I've only made one short visit to Canada so don't know enough to judge on that one.

The French have thrown a spanner in the works with these lightening tariffs. We were agreeing on a non regression clause which is usual. Macron is a Europhile he will do anything to prevent Brexit being a success as it would give credence to Marine Le Pen. This is not about trade or fish, just politics. It is no deal or a bad deal.

@ThePlantsitter

This thread was just started to cause the argument it has. All this war like talk about 'them' being in 'our' waters. The OP is obviously not thick enough to believe her purchasing camembert and Calvados would have any effect on UK France relations. She is baiting you all. Who knows why, but if this attitude spreads it would certainly suit our current scabrous fuck up of a government.

Well aware.

Its amusing.

Lets blame France for our own government being shit.

At the end of the day we could have had Brexit go smoothly if we wished. The UK (and by that I mean all sides of this debate) decided to have a melt down and shout at each other.

Now when shit is hitting the fan, people are deciding to blame France because its easier than admit we well and truly fucked it.

@AlexaShutUp

I answered this already, excuse the typo. My phone keeps overriding:

We have a representative government who has been trying to balance the mandate to leave along with the fact there was a significant minority who wanted to stay.

The greater the number of simultaneous outcomes required and the more nuanced they are, the harder negotiationing a good outcome becomes.

For the French, it’s not that complicated.

I'm (sadly) British and I'm on France's / EU's side

The UK is acting like a spoilt brat

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils

Truffle oil every week?!?!!? Wow

We have a representative government who has been trying to balance the mandate to leave along with the fact there was a significant minority who wanted to stay.

You’re kidding, right?

The referendum was so close that May decided to balance the mandate by trying to rush through Article 50 and then going hard Brexit by leaving the SM/CU?

If there’d been any recognition of the large proportion of the electorate that voted to Remain, there’d at least been some kind of cross-party consultations and consideration of an EEA/ EFTA path.

My concern is not just for the UK, but for the whole of EU now

What about the Irish border issue?
There is a lot of money to be made as a result of No Deal if you have an investment fund company like Jacob Rees Mogg and you're based in Ireland.

Next to nothing in common with the US, other than language.

Agree. It's a very foreign country.

Australia, New Zealand and Canada might be more 'European' in their outlook, but their combined population is less than the UK and they are very far away. We share a land border with the EU.

People on here do not like to admit that we have more in common with Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and the US

You mean the English language and Commonwealth (not the US)?

Trade with the EU will always be desirable because geography means we can have our food delivered quicker and cheaper than trade with those other countries.

We have a representative government who has been trying to balance the mandate to leave along with the fact there was a significant minority who wanted to stay.

Sorry, but I don't understand. What concessions have our leave-voting leaders made to recognise the wishes of the large remain minority? Can you provide some specific evidence of this balancing, please?

As a remain voter, I don't believe that any account has been taken of my vote. We could have gone for a soft Brexit given how close the referendum was, but that's not how things panned out.

This is not about trade or fish, just politics.

The irony of this statement when talking about Brexit !

[quote Empressofthemundane]@KleinBlue

I’m lazy so I’m just going to cut and paste what I said before:

*We have a representative government who has been trying to balance the mandate to leave along with the fact there was a significant minority who wanted to stay.

The greater the number of simultaneous outcomes required and the more nuanced they are, the harder negotiationing a good outcome becomes.

For the French, it’s not that complicated.*

There is no secret group of “saboteurs.” It’s just the dynamics of the situation.[/quote]
a) while we have FPTP, this govt is "representative" in name only
b) "Brexit means Brexit, citizens of nowhere, no deal is better than a bad deal". None of those slogans scream balancing mandates to me.

@SabrinaThwaite

We have a representative government who has been trying to balance the mandate to leave along with the fact there was a significant minority who wanted to stay.

You’re kidding, right?

The referendum was so close that May decided to balance the mandate by trying to rush through Article 50 and then going hard Brexit by leaving the SM/CU?

If there’d been any recognition of the large proportion of the electorate that voted to Remain, there’d at least been some kind of cross-party consultations and consideration of an EEA/ EFTA path.

Yes. And I think that his most loyal supporters could not claim Boris Johnson does ‘nuance’.

The French have thrown a spanner in the works with these lightening tariffs. We were agreeing on a non regression clause which is usual. Macron is a Europhile he will do anything to prevent Brexit being a success as it would give credence to Marine Le Pen. This is not about trade or fish, just politics. It is no deal or a bad deal

I agree entirely with this.

It could be an own goal, will the French Farmers and wine makers thank Macron for this? Will the French fisherman benefit from a no deal? No. Marcon is NOT doing this for the French people at all.

It would be utterly foolish to think for a minute this is for them. And they know it. A no deal will be awful for them.

Nope, this is Macron trying to position himself for the leading role of the EU as Merkel bows out.

My concern is not just for the UK, but for the whole of EU now

Dear god, this is just priceless.

I’m sure Macron, Martin, Merkel, and constant losing too much sleep.

We’re you as concerned about neighbouring states when the GFA was under threat, or when Patel suggested that starving the Irish would be an option?

No, all you care about is something that impacts you. You can’t understand how anyone else can be happy with something that disadvantages you.

You’re the very definition of British arrogance.

Oh, give over, Op! You're a pro-Brexit poster and this thread is just to spread disinformation against the French. It's as obvious as it's inaccurate - right down to the weekly truffle oil order!

Trade with the EU will always be desirable because geography means we can have our food delivered quicker and cheaper than trade with those other countries.

Also, all countries look after their own best interests. There is no reason to believe that any of the Commonwealth countries feel an obligation towards the UK.

The UK doesn't want to be in the club anymore. So the club is screwing us. Completely understandable

Well it's not really morally right though is it?

The EU should have had realistic exit strategies for members.