Really very sad with France!

[Friendsoftheearth]

I am quietly furious with France. We have been going to France between three and four times a year, every year for pretty much all of my adult life. We have spent most summer holidays, skiing and all the rest, choosing France as our destination over all over countries.

Every week I buy French cheeses, wine and truffle oils, and we are very big fans of France and French cuisine.

Even taking into account that Macron should hope and push for the best deal for their fishing industry, I still find it incredulous and insulting that they should be demanding ten years of fish, and are offering us a paltry percentage. Ten years.
They are in a total stand off regarding an even playing field, I understand the reasons for this, but honestly they are pushing all of us to a no deal outcome, that will see French fisherman with no catch whatsoever, and high tariffs slapped on all imports from France. Tourism will be destroyed as people will no longer wish to go there. It could poison relations for decades.

I am aware of the history between the UK and France, but rather naively thought we had moved on from that a very long time ago, I am in despair at the eleventh hour demands, and feel this is in very bad faith. It has really highlighted to me how little respect France have for us as a country.

I feel like I never want to go again, despite having a tentative booking for a holiday in the spring of next year.

Applesonthelawn:
By "Brexitrolls, you mean the democratic majority?*

Because excluding from the vote those who will be most directly affected is somehow democratic?

@MrsMiaWallis

What lower worker protections?

We don't know yet, because the negotiations are for the right to have lower worker and environmental protections (not for specific changes at this stage). If the UK gets this right then we will see which worker and environmental rights get reduced/removed. Obviously the government intend to make use of these rights to reduce protections, otherwise they wouldn't be arguing for these rights to the bitter end at the risk of the whole deal. The specific details of what changes the government make will only be known in the long-run. At the moment it is right to make these changes (reductions/removals) that the government is negotiating for.

I don't blame the French, I don't even blame incompetent Boris, the blame sits squarely with the 17 million who voted Brexit.

I do blame incompetent Boris.

Maybe we are older and wiser now, but I don't think it was unreasonable for millions of people to assume that high ranking politicians like Gove and Johnson knew what they were talking about.

backwards
I hope you appreciated the "Fin" pun wink

Tres bien! 👍🏻

Perhaps Macron has bigger fish to fry with all the chaos going on internally in France (strangely not reported in the mainstream media).

Obviously it isn't the right to have higher environmental and worker rights, is it?
The EU don't want us to have this right because then we will be cheaper and more competitive than them.
That competitiveness would come at the cost of the environment and workers' rights.

The EU’s red lines have been consistent from the start and were always going to be the case. Just because the UK’s strategy was to cherrypick the good bits without keeping to the basic standards is not the EU’s fault. The fact the UK’s has not developed much is also not the EU’s fault.

I'm just saying the UK has been the only country to offer a referendum on this subject, and I think there would be a few surprises were other countries to do the same (not going to happen!).

Well I’m in Ireland. I look to our 93% EU approval ratings. Hmm, let me think? Not going to happen.

This position is massively overstated by the brexiteers (because they’d love it to be true)

There will always a small cohort shouting loudly on things like this, but what are the actual percentages at a population level?

There will be no automatic access for UK-registered vessels to fish in EU, EEA or third country waters. All forms of fishing gear must be removed before the 1 January 2021. Any fishing activity outside of UK waters will be considered Illegal, Unreported and Unregulated (IUU).

Will this have any impact on the UK fishing fleet ?

@AlizarinRed

I think this demonstrates why Brexit happened. If you are in the north of Britain you don't just pop over to France - yes, you can fly and hire a car, which many do but it's probably easier to go to the Med. So popping over several times a year is unlikely. Stop moaning, start buying British.

Pmsl!

When Britain starts producing wine to rival Sancerre or Crozes Hermitage, cheese to rival Pont l'Eveque or Roquefort, and tinned fish soup as good as Perard that might be a possibility.

I don't see any reason to deprive myself of nice food and wine just because 17m eejits were pissed off with Poles and Romanians working here.

And I always buy underwear in France. So much nicer, even chain store knickers are better in France.

The fact is that France, and the EU have a number of other countries who, if they see the UK getting a decent deal, are likely to want referundae to leave. This will see a lot more money draining from their coffers.

@makingmammaries

Applesonthelawn: By "Brexitrolls, you mean the democratic majority?*

Because excluding from the vote those who will be most directly affected is somehow democratic?

You could similarly argue that in a general election 17 year olds are able to form cogent arguments and should therefore be able to vote. Or that some 17 year olds can and should, not others. The time to quibble about where to draw the line is before the event, not after. It doesn't make it less democratic that the line was drawn in a place that doesn't suit you.

As an employer I haven't been told how I can undercut the EU with regard to employee protection and magically make my buisness more profitable? Afaik the minimum wage, unions, sick pay - nothing is changing. I'd like to think we could win tenders by being more competitive than Germany, who win the majority of our public service contracts at the moment.

Oh dear.

A country looks after its own best interests and you have a problem with that and think its wrong?

You need to get out more.

I don't blame the French, I don't even blame incompetent Boris, the blame sits squarely with the 17 million who voted Brexit.

I blame Cameron. I’m not sure why he isn’t getting more heat to be honest. His incompetence and arrogance caused this.

I also blame May for shifting the conversation towards hard brexit. That wasn’t necessary.

Boris, yeah sure, but actually I think the others did more damage.

"I am quietly furious with France" - that will go on the list of best phrases I ever heard on Mumsnet!

It's more important to the EU and France that the UK are seen to not get a good deal, than for the EU to get a good deal. I'm sick to death of the EU and their games. These machinations and politicisation of trade are why we voted out.

[quote 1dayatatime]@Friendsoftheearth

You need to remember that the UK chose to leave the EU not the other way round.

I don't blame the French, I don't even blame incompetent Boris, the blame sits squarely with the 17 million who voted Brexit.[/quote]
I do blame Spaffer. He is not just incompetent, he is malicious, as are all the rich people who wanted Brexshit. The 17 million were easily manipulated and have served their turn.

I think France may have worked out that no deal will benefit them.

@HijabiVenus

The fact is that France, and the EU have a number of other countries who, if they see the UK getting a decent deal, are likely to want referundae to leave. This will see a lot more money draining from their coffers.

Which country? I saw the EU approval figures a couple of months ago and they are still as high as they've always been.

@HmmSureJan

I knew you'd get replies saying you were being unreasonable OP. People just love to despise their own country on here. You're not wrong.

It's not about despising our "own country". I bloody love my country, and that's why I'm angry: angry at the harm inflicted on it by leaving the EU.

The Brexiteers have shot us all in the foot, because they could not grasp that we no longer have an empire and rely on international co-operation to have a thriving economy.

Voting to leave the world's biggest and most powerful trading bloc was spectacularly stupid, I can't see how anyone thought it was a good idea.

@Sarahandco

I think France may have worked out that no deal will benefit them.

Absolutely this.

It's so interesting that if you put this kind of thread in AIBU, you get more Brexiteers who still believe the grift.
Christmas is a good time to think about name changing because you will need to pretend you had nothing to do with the forthcoming No Deal shitshow. That You Voted For.

I have to say I'm bored stupid of hearing about the bloody fish. If we are going to destroy our economy for the sake of fishing rights for fish we don't even want to ear, and mostly sell back to EU countries thrn we are seriously deluded about our own status in the world. Why should our financial services/car industries/supermarkets/medical recruitment go to pot over fishing rights that account for 0.12% of our gdp? And I say that as someone who lives in a harbour town on the south coast. I've rarely eaten fish caught by the local boats unless at an exorbitantly priced local restaurant. If we leave with no deal the fishermen don't even have a market to sell their fish too. The Brexiteers can't have it every way, we can't lose out on everything else just to keep a fishing industry going (that sold its quotas willingly to make money, nobody forced them too)

It doesn't make it less democratic that the line was drawn in a place that doesn't suit you.

Or 1.3 million other UK citizens who happened to have believed the UK when it said we could move to the EU? That would have changed the result, you see. That’s why we were cut out. Woo hoo, British democracy in action.

FWIW, nobody asked our opinion before the vote either.