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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask your opinions on God?

999 replies

Violetduck · 04/12/2020 21:31

Do you beleive there is a God? I would like to, but how can he exist alongside modern science?

Aibu to believe in something more?

OP posts:
Warpdrive · 05/12/2020 18:53

Hi @diplododocusinermine I love your username BTW.

I just wanted to share that the correct translation of God's cursing Eve in Eden was not just that she would die, but "Dying, she would die". The curse not only brought physical death into the world, but another type of death or separation too. That is often overlooked or misunderstood but explains so much to me.

Also, responding to your idea of starting again - God did that too, only 8 were saved in the bible story of Noahs ark. I believe God puts up with so much from us because He is more loving than we can believe! (Like you, I also wouldn't have the patience to deal with people and would want to start again!)

For me, I think that there are many misconceptions about God - we tend to judge Him by our own standards but if He's actually God then we need to submit to His and the only way anyone can really know Him is for Him to reveal Himself, so why not ask Him?

Warpdrive · 05/12/2020 18:56

@chomalungma
Well He has certainly allowed it. And famine and hunger and hardship and physical pain and death.

Ladyks · 05/12/2020 18:57

I believe. Another one who believes that a personal relationship is what is important. Church is made by humans and comes with the imperfections of being human. I can focus on myself and discuss my beliefs without judging others.

Warpdrive · 05/12/2020 19:04

@ErrolTheDragon And why did Jesus use parables? Why not just come out and say what he wanted to? Its almost as though some things are deliberately hidden!

For me, if i want to know the truth of a matter - i will search it out until I'm sure, I want to understand what was meant - not necessarily what the words say, but what they mean. Who wrote them, when, why, and who for...
I'd never sign a contract without understanding it, its the same type of thing.

Someone told me once that the biggest and best jewels are worth digging deep for, and my experience is that is true.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 05/12/2020 19:09

I'd never sign a contract without understanding it, its the same type of thing

I agree with never signing a contract you don't understand. The reason contracts protect parties is because they are designed to be unambiguous and use clear definitions without potential for subjectivity. So not at all like fables, parables and allegories.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 05/12/2020 19:11

Sorry that sounded snippier than I meant it to when I read back! I just don't think that being comfortable with having to find hidden meaning in highly subjective passages of text is in any way comparable to having a keenness to understand legal contracts - they sound like opposite things to me that's all.

BiBabbles · 05/12/2020 19:50

In Christianity it is unacceptable hubris

It is pretty much impossible to say 'in Christianity' about anything and be accurate. Not all of them have the concept of original sin (neither do most branches of Judaism). Not all of them even take Jesus as divine (which isn't a requirement for Messiah). There are many denominations of Christianity that lean more towards questioning, and can back that view with the text just as much if not better than those who take an authoritarian deity point of view.

I mean, did Abraham and Moses have unacceptable hubris to argue with God? That is not how the text shows those arguments, it is shown as compassion and bravery to awaken God's mercy at a time of his wrath. Between Jeremiah, Habakkuk, and the others, it seems prophets were chosen from those who would be willing to argue with God for the good of people.

This is continued in many traditions. There are variations of this story of a teacher being asked if he believes that God created everything for a purpose? He said that of course he believed that God created everything for a purpose. They said in that case, why did God create atheists? And he replied “Because those who have faith sometimes make their peace with the injustices of this world by claiming that they are the will of God. Therefore God created atheists to protest and fight every injustice”. In some traditions, it is better to be a kind heretic than hiding behind religious institutions and a particular interpretation of the texts and allow suffering to happen.

Even in Job where God has his little 'were you there when I created the foundations of the world' speech, God doesn't prevent any further arguing, he doesn't punish Job for his argument, God encouraged him to continue if he could. It's odd that people think we can't rationalize and understand God so we must accept his mysterious ways, but also think it's funny for people to assume we can argue with a deity that can textually be shown to be open and encourage it. Job might be special since God talked to Satan (not rejecting him) and allowed him to torture a man to test his faith, but it's a repeated theme.

I know the texts alright, at least the versions I've studied, but I find how they were compiled, shifts in translation agreements over time, and how it's been used to take and hold onto power within institutions and wider society far more interesting than it as an argument for an individualistic deity. Biblical scholars may not agree on how to interpret the text, but there isn't much on how much tweaking and edits were done, the fingerprints of people in pursuit of power are all over it throughout centuries of retranslations. It's fascinating how the secrets of the original languages and retranslations always lead to those revealing them affirming their own beliefs and authority.

Some get personal meaning from the texts, but institutions that use them was as a tool of power should be as challenged when they abuse that power as any other. Many religious people are the first to fight, I've worked with them. Others are more than happy to use 'God's will' as an excuse to laugh at the ideas and ignore the pain of others. I'd call that hubris, but I'm equally open to that any divine force doesn't particularly care what we think of it.

80sForever · 05/12/2020 20:21

A relationship with God is experiential rather than theological or philosophical. The Holy Spirit brings enlightenment so if you don't believe then it is either he hasn't started to work on your heart or he did his work and you rejected him

AnathemaPulsifer · 05/12/2020 20:24

@nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut

No. I dont believe in any religion or God. I believe that Jesus was likely a real person and probably a very charismatic leader but the son of God? No.
This.
notafanoftheman · 05/12/2020 20:32

The Holy Spirit brings enlightenment so if you don't believe then it is either he hasn't started to work on your heart or he did his work and you rejected him

Orrrrr.... it’s all bollocks.

SionnachRua · 05/12/2020 20:50

@80sForever

A relationship with God is experiential rather than theological or philosophical. The Holy Spirit brings enlightenment so if you don't believe then it is either he hasn't started to work on your heart or he did his work and you rejected him
😂😂😂 The adult equivalent of saying "Well Santa only comes to boys and girls who believe in him, so of course if little Chloe is saying he's not real he won't visit her!".

Some of us don't feel the need to believe in a higher power to be good people.

LadySlipper · 05/12/2020 21:01

I am an atheist but I wish I could believe. I go to church twice a year when I go home to visit my mother. TBH I got because I like getting dressed up and seeing my relations, and I love the atmosphere of of the tiny old wooden churcy. Once, when going through a particularly hard time personally, I found great comfort in the sermon and oh how I wished I could believe there was someone, something out there who had my back. But I just can't believe in in this invisible sky daddy who wrecks his powers on innocent children and loyal worshippers. Nah, not for me.

80sForever · 05/12/2020 21:02

@notafanoftheman i guess you've rejected him them....Hmm

zaphodbeeble · 05/12/2020 21:03

You can’t reject something that doesn’t exist Hmm

CathyorClaire · 05/12/2020 21:04

@80sForever

A relationship with God is experiential rather than theological or philosophical. The Holy Spirit brings enlightenment so if you don't believe then it is either he hasn't started to work on your heart or he did his work and you rejected him
I tried like a good 'un to feel something during interminable bible studies and prayer meetings as a teen but nah. Nothing. Ever.

Perhaps he was having a day off his exhausting work each time I tried.

80sForever · 05/12/2020 21:12

@sionnachRua this is not about some fake Santa.....God was a human that walked on the earth..he is in the history books

notafanoftheman · 05/12/2020 21:15

See, this is why I lose respect for people when I find out they’re believers. Ready to believe any old nonsense.

zaphodbeeble · 05/12/2020 21:15

pocm.info/

chomalungma · 05/12/2020 21:20

[quote 80sForever]@sionnachRua this is not about some fake Santa.....God was a human that walked on the earth..he is in the history books[/quote]
What do you think of other belief systems?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 05/12/2020 21:21

[quote 80sForever]@sionnachRua this is not about some fake Santa.....God was a human that walked on the earth..he is in the history books[/quote]
God was a human?

Being mentioned or referenced as a concept or belief in history books does not prove god's existence! WhT a strange thing to imply.

You can buy books about the history of poltergeists but it doesn't prove ghosts exist...

youvegottenminuteslynn · 05/12/2020 21:23

[quote 80sForever]@sionnachRua this is not about some fake Santa.....God was a human that walked on the earth..he is in the history books[/quote]
What about the history books from cultures with different religions? Does that prove their god exists too? Or is that on the case for the history books that reference the one you believe in?

80sForever · 05/12/2020 21:23

@CathyorClaire i'm so sorry you feel that way. God is always near you and loves you. He speaks in many different ways e.g a song in your heart, the wind on your face, loving words that jump out at you when you read the bible, an idea, peace

zaphodbeeble · 05/12/2020 21:27

@80sForever have you read the Qur’an, the Vedas, the Tripitaka, the Guru Granth Sahib ? Why is your version the right one ?

TheSandman · 05/12/2020 21:28

No. Don't believe in God / Gods / Alien seeding / Father Christmas / The Easter Bunny / The tooth Fairy ....

I do believe in the unlimited imagination of the human race and its seemingly endless ability to believe any old tosh if it's sold by a charismatic salesperson.

CathyorClaire · 05/12/2020 21:31

[quote 80sForever]@sionnachRua this is not about some fake Santa.....God was a human that walked on the earth..he is in the history books[/quote]
Jesus is a reasonably credible historical figure. God not so much.