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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask your opinions on God?

999 replies

Violetduck · 04/12/2020 21:31

Do you beleive there is a God? I would like to, but how can he exist alongside modern science?

Aibu to believe in something more?

OP posts:
NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 05/12/2020 15:00

Yes, God exists without a shadow of a doubt. So does science. They coexist perfectly well.

CakeRequired · 05/12/2020 15:04

Yanbu to believe in God if you want to. That's your perogative.

What I don't like is believers trying to force others to believe. Not saying you do that, but others do. Those ones are just annoying and tend to be hypocritical.

I don't believe in God. There's no evidence that one exists, and if one did, the fact that they created this world the way it is and do nothing about it makes me think they aren't worth following. It would be like following one of raving lunatic cult leaders.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/12/2020 15:05

I do believe in God - and I used to go to an evangelical church - but I fell,out with organised religion when my father died. I found church too painful in the months after his death, so stopped going and never started again.

I do think about faith and belief, from time to time - but I have always felt I am a failure as a Christian, because I don’t read the Bible privately each day, or have daily prayer/quiet time. At the evangelical church I went to, these were considered very important - and people also sometimes spoke in tongues or got messages from God - I never did, which added to my feeling that I simply didn’t measure up. I do have low self esteem, which doesn’t help.

I love sacred choral music, especially the things written for chamber/small choirs - at this time of year, I listen to a lot of the Christmas classics, and I used to love singing them - and I do think the Christian nature of Christmas is important for me - as well as the human need for a celebration to cheer up the darkest part of the year.

On a practical level, I just can’t be bothered with church - I have only recently found something that is helping with years of insomnia, and I still sleep badly until the early hours of the morning, and then sleep like I am stunned, so getting up for church on a Sunday would be something I’d struggle with (and I do know how lazy that sounds).

youvegottenminuteslynn · 05/12/2020 15:07

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace

Yes, God exists without a shadow of a doubt. So does science. They coexist perfectly well.
I think it depends what faith people belong to, as evolution / Adam and Eve can't both be accurate. That's where as an atheist it all gets blurry for me as it seems people believe some bits of the Bible are true stories, some are allegories etc and sometimes it feels these decisions are made based on how they want to live their lives / what is comfortable. Like a previous poster who mentioned eating bats as being forbidden but presumably doesn't only ever wear pure materials, sometimes wearing mixed ones like polyester - something also forbidden in the Bible. I don't say this to be goady, just to explain that there are instances where it feels very conveniently selective to people who don't believe.
TheFormerPorpentinaScamander · 05/12/2020 15:08

Nandakanda

So many people on this site and others seem to suffer from mental health issues that they try to fix with medication. To me it just seems obvious that they lack a deeper meaning in their lives - or just haven't found it yet.

I assume this is a joke? I'm a Christian, I also have mental health problems. I believe God loves me, but that doesn't cure my depression, anxiety or cPTSD
I presume you know there is a massive link between severe mental illness and religion? I used to work in MH and saw it a lot.

SpudsandGravy · 05/12/2020 15:09

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

There is no god. If you think there is, prove it.
I saw a ghost last night. If you think I didn't, prove it.

(Agnostic here, btw.)

80sForever · 05/12/2020 15:12

@flaviaritt

Then honestly id be telling it what an evil, fucked up bastard it is, telling it to go jump of a cliff and die.

Another one who is struggling with the concept. If ‘He’ is real, when you die, whatever He wants to happen to you will happen. You won’t have a chance to give him a piece of your mind as you contemplate the infinite for the split second before you are atomised and sent to Hell.

😂

Sadly another fact
feelingmehmeh · 05/12/2020 15:18

I saw a ghost last night. If you think I didn't, prove it

You saw it in your dreams.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 05/12/2020 15:18

@Nandakanda

So many people on this site and others seem to suffer from mental health issues that they try to fix with medication. To me it just seems obvious that they lack a deeper meaning in their lives - or just haven't found it yet.

This seems a deeply unchristian and unkind attitude towards people with mental health issues. I'm atheist but seem to have far more compassion, because I genuinely care about people. And I don't do it for any reward or to avoid any punishment. Maybe you should think about whether your post and attitude towards mental health reflects the loving qualities your religion claims to promote. Some Christian posters on this thread have been thoughtful and kind, I think they too would think your attitude is unkind and unchristian.

safariboot · 05/12/2020 15:35

If you deny the existence of God, you still have the problem of explaining how the universe came into being.

If you accept the existence of God, you still have the problem of explaining why God exists. We have two hypothesis. Option 1, God just exists, and made the Universe. Option 2, the Universe just exists. Either way, there has no be something that just is and has no creator. Yes, the Universe appears to have a first point in time, but this merely a property of the Universe.

Therefore God falls flat as an explanation of what we can see. And as others have mentioned, if you believe in the Abrahamic God you have new things to explain, like the problem of evil. (This is less of an issue in polytheistic religions.)

As far as morality goes. My view is that obedience to authority (God) is not morality. Doing things in hope of reward (Heaven) or fear of punishment (Hell) is not morality, it's pure self-interest. True morality is caring about people and things beyond yourself, and that is something anyone can do (or not do) regardless of their religious beliefs.

Againstmachine · 05/12/2020 15:44

Just leave this here. He ain't wrong.

KiposWonderbeasts · 05/12/2020 15:46

It would be nice to have a god. It would be reassuring to think the bad get punished, the good get rewarded, we are reunited with our loved ones and our consciousness goes on forever. Especially now.

I was desperate to believe for years, tried lots of belief systems and ended up a very angry and hurt atheist by 30.

Now I’ve made my peace. I don’t have a God, I have little household gods I honour with rituals and superstitions people have done for millennia. They satisfy my urge to for ritual and someone to cry out to, while not requiring the fawning worship of a violent narcissist (Old Testament god) or someone who constructs rules requiring the murder of a good man (New Testament) or the vilification of women (all monotheistic ones).

It’s an unusual accommodation, but it works for me.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 05/12/2020 15:47

Sadly another fact

This is an extraordinary claim.

I just can’t understand how people believe things for which there is no evidence.

MustardMitt · 05/12/2020 15:52

God is either omnipotent and chooses to allow humans to make awful decisions that cause hurt and pain; or he’s not omnipotent and therefore he’s not a god.

So I don’t believe in god.

TidyOmlette · 05/12/2020 15:52

I believe there is a god. I once asked a priest years ago when I was having a rough time that if god really existed then why did so many bad things happen? He said because god gave us free will.

It helps me sometimes to have a belief in something.

MustardMitt · 05/12/2020 15:53

If I were to believe in god or gods it would be the Ancient Greek gods.

flaviaritt · 05/12/2020 15:57

or he’s not omnipotent and therefore he’s not a god.

That isn’t logical. A god doesn’t have to be omnipotent.

CathyorClaire · 05/12/2020 16:03

@chomalungma

Old Testament God

I'll smite anyone who doesn't believe in me.
I'll destroy cities.
Old Testament God killed lots of people.

New Testament God

Here's my son.
Look. I've changed. Believe in me.

Hmm

Quite.

Although I'd add 'or I'll torture you forever' to the last sentence.

pointythings · 05/12/2020 16:24

@flaviaritt

No way am I clicking on that. 😂
Why not? They're a secular humanist organisation. You won't 'catch' Satanism by clicking on it - you clearly haven't a clue who they are. This closed mindedness is one of the things that bugs me most about the faithful. I read widely and from many sources that I disagree with. And yes, I do read the Bible. Hiding in an echo chamber - whatever your belief - will not bring you wisdom or learning. But anyway, here's a C&P for you. Let me know which bits you find objectionable.

I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

flaviaritt · 05/12/2020 16:27

pointythings

It surprises me that it bothers you that people who believe in God (I’m not even necessarily saying I do) reject Satan. It’s an essential requirement of their faith. If you believe in Hell, you don’t go looking for the Devil. Believe what you like, of course.

pointythings · 05/12/2020 16:27

If you deny the existence of God, you still have the problem of explaining how the universe came into being.

You don't need to explain. You just need to accept that the universe exists and that you are a part of it. Once you accept that there are things that you will never know, you will be able to find peace and live the life that you have.

pointythings · 05/12/2020 16:30

I don't believe in the Devil either, flaviaritt. That's the whole point about being an atheist. But on the whole, if I compare what's in much of the Bible (and how many of its followers behave towards people who are LGBT, female or not Christian) and how the Satanic Temple as a movement encourages its followers to behave, the moral choice seems pretty simple.

If it were compulsory to have a faith (on pain of death or whatever), I'd be a pagan. They don't believe in the Devil either, by the way.

SionnachRua · 05/12/2020 16:30

No, I don't believe in God. Don't see any reason to. I think it would be nice to believe in it all though, especially the afterlife. Must be quite comforting.

There's a great documentary about the Church of Satan on Netflix, it's called Hail Satan. Highly recommend watching, it does a fantasy job of exposing how hypocritical a lot of the so-called Christians in it are.

ErrolTheDragon · 05/12/2020 16:31

^ Then honestly id be telling it what an evil, fucked up bastard it is, telling it to go jump of a cliff and die.

Another one who is struggling with the concept. If ‘He’ is real, when you die, whatever He wants to happen to you will happen. You won’t have a chance to give him a piece of your mind as you contemplate the infinite for the split second before you are atomised and sent to Hell.

😂^

Leaving 'god' out of it, and the complete lack of evidence for anything beyond mortal life - a philosophy which enables an adherent to type out that last sentence followed by a 'crying with laughter' emoji really isn't one I want anything to do with. I'm struggling with the concept that anyone who could type that genuinely believes it.

flaviaritt · 05/12/2020 16:31

pointythings

But I didn’t object to you looking at it. You asked me why I wouldn’t.