To ask for advice about my adult daughter

[WhataMissMap]

I have always enjoyed a good relationship with my adult daughter.
She is mid twenties and has always lived between the family home and student accommodation. We used to chat often she was open about her life and relationships. As she is our youngest child we have always been very liberal and laissez faire with her.
She did lots of socialising around our home with her friends and was always very comfortable with me. Occasionally her friends have asked me to give some professional help, which I have been happy to do.
About eighteen months ago she met a new man, a student like her. He seemed pleasant if very quiet. His politics were not the same as ours but that was no problem to us, although it may have been to him. We never discussed anything with him.
When the virus kicked off we had to socially isolate strictly, as we brought my elderly mother to live with us.
My daughter and her partner moved into my mothers house, rent free, at our suggestion.
Then my daughter seemed to change quite quickly. She became unwilling to chat on the phone as normal. She was suddenly very guarded what she had to say.
I respected her privacy and didn’t ask questions as this seemed to make her even more nervous and edgy. She occasionally came to sit in the garden with us over the summer but her boyfriend didn’t accompany her.
We had a family gathering for her birthday in July. She almost refused to attend as she had fallen out with one of her brothers this was out of character for her. The reason she gave was her brother was becoming a drama queen. Well in the family’s opinion he has always been a drama queen and thoroughly enjoys the role!
We got a feeling that maybe her boyfriend might be behind it all.
She didn’t stay long at her party and seemed fairly uncomfortable, although nothing was said to her to cause her to feel this way.
She kept her distance from us for the rest of the summer.
Then my mother’s neighbour told us the boyfriend hadn’t been seen for a couple of months, and my daughter was now living alone.
We were surprised as she hadn’t mentioned a break up. Normally she would have been wanting tea and sympathy.
Last week she bumped into her brother accidentally and he asked about her boyfriend and she said they were no longer together but that he was not to tell us!
Finally she called around to our house to pick up her winter jumpers. All the time she was distracted and constantly texting. I admit mischievously asked was her boyfriend being a bit needy and she should have brought him with her. She muttered you won’t be seeing him again. I asked aren’t you together? She immediately stormed off. Shouting don’t ask me questions!
It was one question after 6 months.
Her personality change is so great I just don’t understand.
My DH works in the same academic institution and he would hear if she wasn’t coping well there, we know she is doing well with her research.
We are experienced parents with four grown up children. We have normal relationships with the other three. We aren’t pushy parents. She isn’t a dizzy teen. What’s going on? I’m not allowed to ask her so I’m asking you all. I’m bemused and concerned in equal measure.

Could she be seeing a married man and know that you won’t approve? That would account for the secrecy.

I can understand your worry but I'm afraid I haven't any suggestions as to what it might be.
I would probably see if I could find out anything via the parents of her friends, or her friends directly, see if they knew anything, but discreetly.

It does seem like a big change of personality that is unlikely not to have a reason.

The start of your post made me worry about domestic abuse, so actually I think the fact they’re no longer together is a good thing. As for why she’s still keeping her distance, I don’t know; maybe embarrassment?

I think she may be in an abusive relationship, in which case they will likely get back together at this point. Have a look at women's aid website as there is a checklist to help similar situations and advise friends and family.

It sounds to me like it's possibly been an abusive relationship and that he's probably still in contact with her either harassing her or trying to weedle his way back in. I wouldn't be surprised if he is using the line about knowing a secret about her and is holding it over her that people will be "disgusted" or "disappointed" if they find out. A friends ex did this with her, told her that people would be horrified if they knew she was a thief and would want nothing to do with her, she'd end up alone, the police would become involved, etc and held it over her that he was willing to keep her "secret" so long as she complied with him. The reality of it was that she had shoplifted items she needed due to his financial abuse.

Unfortunately you can't force her to tell you what's going on but you can let her know you're there if she does want to talk and that nothing she tells you will be a deal breaker.

We’ll as it’s your dm’s house there’s no reason you shouldn’t drop in to do necessary repairs occasionally, she’s not paying rent.
If it was my dd I’d ask her outright if she was ok because she seemed a bit distant. I have a dd in her late 20’s and like your dd this behaviour would be totally out of character.

Domestic violence
Drugs
Married lover
Depression
Debt

Is there anyone else you could ask in confidence to try and check if she is ok and what's going on? One of her friends or someone in the wider family? Where is she going to live if her gran gets vaccinated and wants to move back home?

Thank you all. It’s so valuable to have your opinions.
I can’t discuss it openly with anyone in “real” life.

Ps
Just heard today my mother is getting the jab in ten days. So her moving home will be a real possibility. She is very elderly but fit and active. She can’t wait to pick up the threads of her old life.

That's brilliant OP. All the best to your family

I'd send her a card and write words to the effect of "DD, I don't want to intrude - we admire your independence (or similar) - but just sending this note to let you know that we miss you and love you lots and lots and are always here whenever and if ever you need us.

Then just put in a few lines about what you and your DH are doing as if it was a normal note.

Then add another "love you lots" so she is in no doubt and sign your name?

Oh well that's good news op. No doubt that will involve some communication with your DD re: practical/logistical matters.

I think you need to have a conversation with her about the possibility she will need to find alternative accommodation and you may be able to glean some further information. Perhaps she was in an abusive relationship with ex and wants to shield you from it?

It sounds like a possible revenge porn scenario. If the bf had taken photos of her as she slept, for example, he could be threatening her with sharing them with you if she is open with you about something he's done.

Best thing you can do is make sure she knows - really knows - that your love for her is unconditional and that whatever she did or whatever you heard about her would make no difference; that you'd be on her side against the whole world if need be.

I wonder if the 'drama queen' brother knows something he doesn't realise is significant?

Was it her first serious relationship?

How frequently do her non-dramatic siblings pop round to her's (your DM's house) for a chat?

Do you know any of your DD's friends whom you could approach?

If not, pop round to your DMs to pick up a coat or something she'll need for Christmas and ask her some open questions that can't be answered with a yes or no.

Good luck.

I admit mischievously asked was her boyfriend being a bit needy and she should have brought him with her. She muttered you won’t be seeing him again. I asked aren’t you together?
She asked her brother not to tell you about the split, and it must have been extremely obvious from this little chat that her brother did tell you. So you fake-innocently asking why he wasn't with her must have been pretty hurtful and annoying. Not only did her brother break his word; her parents were acting as if her breakup wasn't serious, and as if she was too stupid to realise they already knew the answer.

Perhaps she's struggling with the isolation or the anxiety of Covid? Like PPs, I initially thought it was connected to her new bf but perhaps it's the pandemic. Lots of students are struggling this year - not academically - but emotionally and psychologically.

If she’s mid twenties, what does she do for a job?

I’d think about getting in touch with one of her close friends to see if they can shed some light?

I’m dreading discussing it with her.
She was so extremely angry after one seemingly fairly innocent question.

I can’t imagine she is in debt. She has always been good with money.
I don’t think it’s drugs. She’s always been very anti.
She is a keen runner and has always advocated healthy eating.
After she left home she lost a lot of weight intentionally, as did her boyfriend.
She was slim to start but now she is very lean.
She would always have an occasional coke and some crisps but she commented early on in the relationship that her boyfriend was disapproving of this habit and she would have to keep her occasional indulgence a secret.
She is normally such a strong person I thought she was pulling my leg. I couldn’t imagine anyone telling her what to eat- I could never get away with that!

She has always been the kindest and most generous of us all. She was always the peace maker. From being very young she has always set great store by fairness.

She seems like a different person.

I thought controlling boyfriend until it was mentioned he was gone. Now I think she "won't be seeing him again" because she's killed him and buried him in the garden, and is stressing about being found out...

This isn't helpful, is it?

I think I would write a letter summarising the changes then give her a multiple choice question of scenarios this thread can come up with (including now the boyfriend buried in the garden one) so she can ostensibly just tick one. Hopefully several of the scenarios will be a lot worse than the truth so if she's afraid of talking for some reason the actual problem will seem mild by comparison, and she'll be less worried about saying anything.

Ravenmum- I think you might be right.
It was clumsy of me.

It was the constant texting that prompted me.

Where was she living before your suggestion to move into your mums with her partner? Could she have felt pushed out? The row she had with her brother was it resolved - I'd feel uncomfortable if I was celebrating my birthday with my family and I'd fallen out with a sibling. Just because he is always dramatic and enjoys it doesn't mean that his siblings have to.

You have your mums neighbour discussing your daughters boyfriend with you, her father being able to keep tabs on her work/study and her mum making pointed comments about her relationship maybe she's putting some boundaries in, feels like she needs to pull back a bit?

Sorry I’ve realised you said she’s a student. It threw me when I read your DH works at the same institution as her and would know if she was struggling.

Not sure how he’d know mind, unless she chose to tell him.... as it would be between her and her lectures etc.