To think dsis being OTT wrt Christmas?

[OhFFSNowWhat]

I live with my 2 dc and along the road from my dm. I split from dh at the beginning of the year. My dsis lives 2 hours away with her dh, Ds and 3mo baby. Originally dh had booked for dc and I to go abroad for Christmas but then CV hit and dh and I split up so that wasn’t going to be going ahead. Because of this my dm was going to spend Chris with dc and I at my house and dc would go to exdh’s a few days later.

But...now exdh can’t get any time off work over Christmas at all and won’t be able to see dc until NYE. As airlines are flying again and we hadn’t actually cancelled it exdh said that I should still take dc’s away for Christmas with my dm. However, dm is terrified of flying so I’m going to take dc on my own.

Dsis has said my mum can go down to hers on Christmas Day and stay for a few days. However, my dsis has been being incredibly cautious about Coronavirus. She has barely left the house since February, she wouldn’t let me come and wave through the window at her new baby when he was born (this was when there were fewer travel restrictions) as she thought the risk was too high. I’m trying to be as understanding as I can, everyone has a different interpretation of risk, she’s always been cautious so I do kind of understand.

It’s my youngests birthday on 18th so 7 days before my dm would travel down to my dsis. Dsis has said that dm can only come and see them if she has stayed inside for the 7 days prior to Christmas Day with absolutely zero contact with anyone - she can’t get any shopping delivered, she can’t go out for a run, she can’t stop for petrol or toilet on the way up. If she does any of these things dsis won’t let her visit.

This obviously means dm can’t come to dc’s birthday tea. We’ve bubbled together so she’s been coming over a lot which has been great for both her and me. Dc is obviously disappointed he couldn’t have a party (I’d stupidly told him back in March that I’m sure it would be fine for him to have a party by December). He’s a really sociable boy and has taken lockdown really hard. Exdh can’t make it for his birthday either so it will be really sad if it’s just me and his brother for his birthday . Both myself and dc1 will have had CV tests with the results back by then anyway as we need them to be able to fly the next day. Dc2 won’t be having a test as he’s too young.

What should I do? Dm wants to just come and not tell dsis. I cant do it a day earlier as we might not have CV results by then and dc1 and I have to isolate between having test and getting results.

Any suggestions I haven’t thought of? Discussing any kind of flexibility with dsis is absolutely off the table. I don’t know if it’s some form of PND but she absolutely shuts down any talk of it if it’s brought up. All she’ll say is ‘you take your risks, I’ll take mine’.

Your Mum could buy a device called a Shewee if she needs a wee in the car and decides to follow your sisters rules. Is your sister likely to actually ask outright about food shopping? As I would just not mention it if I was your Mum and she probably wouldn't ask, rather than lie. I agree with many of the other posters about prioritising your Mum visiting her to try and work out what is going on and how bad things actually are. I know very little about autism, but her DH's autism may be hampering his ability to deal with this and /or the shyness if he doesn't normally challenge her. I don't know about social services but definitely try and contact her GP or health visitor , she sounds like she needs some major help. The GP may be able to get her to go for an appt or at least have a phone appt with her.

Want to echo posters who say you need to act! You need to either contact your BIL however shy he is, he needs to step up and be a husband and a father, your nephew isn't being adequately cared for. How likely is it your sister will be open to a conversation with you and your mum so you can communicate your worries? Wherever you and your mum are for Christmas is a complete non issue compared to your sisters declining mental health

bookworming dsis has food delivered but she leaves it in her garage for 10 days before she considers it safe enough for her to go and disinfect. Then after disinfecting it she’ll leave it again for 24-48 hrs before actually bringing it inside. She is expecting my mum to do the same for the week preceding her visit. I dread to think what food she’ll be serving up on Christmas Day.

Jesus fucking Christ!

Your Mum could buy a device called a Shewee if she needs a wee in the car and decides to follow your sisters rules

And if she needs a poo?

Do we think sales of Shewees have increased during lockdown?

Op hopefully you'll hear back from the friend very soon. I think if you don't hear back by lunch time tomorrow, you should call SS.

Your DSis needs help, DBILs autism might be clouding his judgement or more likely they are feeding each others fears.
I actually don't think you should leave it until Christmas. I'm thinking if SS intervene now they should be able to get the boy into a pre-school for the new term in January.

If you knew her HVs then they could also step in just as a friendly "is all ok"
I've had a HV visit when someone thought I was suffering depression. Actually I was just going through a really hard time. HV understood when I explained all that was going on in my life at that time.

Jesus fucking christ, some pp think suggesting your poor mum should used a shewee and/or nappies, during her drive on the way to your frankly bonkers sister., is ok?

Seriously! Wtf?

@Throckmorton

How is your nephew getting a balanced diet if your sister does that with all the food? I can't imagine milk or fruit or veg lasts that long in a garage. Is he at risk of rickets and scurvy? I honestly think social services might be worth considering

This. If she's really doing this (and, again, as with her refusal to believe that schools are open - it doesn't take much to find real guidance on shopping etc. Most people who are COVID-paranoid are still disinfecting their shopping, sure, but they're doing so on the day then getting on with their lives. Her random 10 day rule is completely unnecessary, as per multiple scientific guidance), it's impossible to understand how they are actually living. They must be eating almost exclusively long life/tinned food etc with very limited fresh fruit, veg or dairy.

Her DH having autism suggests to me that either he is happy with this little bubble of 4 or that he is also being abused by her.

To be clear though, I don't think social services are going to be insisting that the little boy goes out or attends nursery. But if she is making decisions on information that is just 100% wrong and those decisions are affecting, for example, his physical or mental development, then that is something that needs to be addressed.

My family is all vulnerable. I'm quarentining our shopping and deliveries for three days, as per WHO advice.
Any perishables, I spray and wipe on arrival, then refrigerate in an outside fridge for a couple of days. Because we have the space and a spare fridge in the barn.
You sister's regimen sounds unhinged, tbh. Seriously.

Your sister is definitely not just being unreasonable, she is significantly mentally unwell. There is no doubt about that, and it is probably complicated with post natal anxiety or depression.

It is very unfortunate when people develop OCD feelings around something that is a genuine risk. If I can explain...your sister is in her mind trying to avoid covid. Some of what she is doing in that quest is not completely unreasonable. For example, I know lots of people trying to avoid public loos and come up with workarounds for long journeys.

Some of what she is doing is OTT, eg wiping shopping a bit is ok but her system is not feasible and not needed. Some of what she is doing is completely paranoid and irrelevant, eg you waving through a window.

The trouble is that when trying to get rid of ocd behaviours therapists usually try and cut them out root and branch...maybe even encouraging people to do things that your average person wouldn’t feel comfortable doing. But with the current situation some precautions are going to be relevant going forward. Focus on the most unreasonable demands for now.

It’s one thing saying don’t pander to it and I agree up to a point, but the distress that could be caused to her by ignoring her wishes could actually be severe and cause a worsening of her symptoms. Changes need to be made carefully. Certainly though point out that even if you do something initially to placate her, you find it illogical and are only doing it for her, in the shortest term.

I think you said none of your sister’s household are particularly officially vulnerable? In that case I think the ideal is that she could adjust her perception of the greater risk to her, and her household....which is her illness and the effects of her behaviour. Her mental health will continue to worsen if left untreated, and the consequences for the whole family will be hard. That will happen, that is an illness she has definitely got and damage that will definitely hit her dc and dh. On the other hand covid is an illness they might not get, and would probably not be very unwell with. The consequences of carrying on as she is, or of taking a small risk with covid, need listing out on paper.

She needs cbt and she almost certainly will need medication to get through this and get better. I don’t know the best way to step in but please do something. This is a terrible way for her and her family to be living. This won’t just pass when the situation with the virus improves.

I just want to add OP that even though it is important for your sister to recognise the real risks, ie from her mental health rather than just from covid, recognising that is just a step to recovery. Many people with ocd fully understand logically that their fears are unjustified, but that in itself is not the same part of the brain in which the fear and compulsions are processed. Therapy and meds will need to happen too as the thought processes and behaviour are ingrained.

I think your Mum should quarantine like your sister has asked and use the opportunity of being in the house to interact with DN and talk to DS about her fears. I would never forgive family ringing SS behind my back. How awful. Health Visitors would be a more normal health professional to approach. If your sister was showing no signs of improvement then maybe go to GP and ask for psychiatric assessment. I think your sister sounds quite unwell and hope the situation improves for her and DN.

Your sister needs help. This is not healthy in any way shape or form.

Is there no way you could get your DM on a plane? Doctors will prescribe tablets to help relax her. I have several friends who do this, otherwise they would never fly.

Personally I think "dSis" is using covid as an excuse to avoid having your Mum there.

Her criteria for her visiting is very extreme and virtually guarantees she will not be able to comply.

All those suggesting going to her gp. This won’t work as because of patient confidentiality the GP won’t do anything unless the person comes to them for help

Tried this ourselves at the start of family members dementia and got nowhere until it had really taken hold and they attacked someone

It is going to be hard convincing your sister that there is something wrong with her thinking and risk assessment. I think you could suggest her going to see her gp but if she doesn’t I think SS might be the way to go.
Or would adult social care do anything. Your sister is clearly unwell and your BIL doesn’t sound like he is that bothered about disturbing the status quo or both him and his Ds are being abused by your sisters to appease her mental state.

I doubt your mother even if she does go at Christmas will be able to do anything to convince her daughter that she is mentally unwell.

As any vaccine is going to take time to filter down to those who are young, physically healthy and are not at risk it could be that your dsis more than likely could be returning to work and nephew starting school before a vaccine becomes available for them.
What would happen then?

At this level I don’t think even if everyone were given the vaccine today and Covid declared dead she would suddenly snap out of it.
I think she would believe that something like a new strain was lurking and the vaccine wouldn’t cover her so she would deem it still not safe to go out

I would never forgive family ringing SS behind my back. How awful. Health Visitors would be a more normal health professional to approach. If your sister was showing no signs of improvement then maybe go to GP and ask for psychiatric assessment

Various issues with this.
1, You would never know who called SS, all they need to say is they are concerned about DC not attending nursery etc.

2, How do you as an outsider get a hold of HVs name or number? Nobody is going to give you that info. It's not like you can easily google it.

3, GP isn't going to listen to a sister who's 300 miles away. Half a chance of them listening if the DH says there's an issue.

And actually if the sister is ill needs support, she will eventually forgive for someone being caring enough to actually intervene.

As I said up thread I've had a HV visit me because someone reported potential depression. I just had a lot on my plate at the time. HV understood and left it at that.

To add to the above, you'd be going to SS for the sake of the child - it doesn't matter what the sister thinks of that if it protects a child from neglect. I certainly would not hold off on contacting SS just because I was worried what the adult might think of me.

@OhFFSNowWhat did you make any decisions on how to help your sister /nephew?

Crikey your poor sister, this year seems to have made so many people worry about things they did every day of the week previously, the food thing is very worrying, what is she doing for milk and fresh food? Speaking to her friend may be a good idea but may make you worry even more, if you do know which doctors surgery she's at you could ask for the phone number of the local hv team and ask them to contact her perhaps ask them to phrase things in a is their any support they could help with for her and the kids, hv's are for children aged 0-5 so could cover things on both children as its more worrying for the 4 year old than the baby.
I don't know what is best for your mum but someone definitely needs to get over there so would be inclined to follow her wishes just to get there and take it from there how bad things might be - would her husband tell her you were worried about her if you called him? That might make it harder if he would and also unless you are going to email him during his work hours phoning him may well be heard from your sister, she will likely be cross and that might isolate her further as in she may not speak to you again for a while so I'd be careful on that front.
I really hope you and your family can work things out, it's going to be stressful for you all especially her but hopefully you will be able to get through to her that life is for living and fresh air, exercise and seeing other people are all so important to our mental health and well-being not just as people but as parents too.