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Original poster

Can't stand people referring to others as a 'Karen'

561 replies

shesellsseashells99 · 30/11/2020 21:41

I'm fed up with seeing it, I really have. it's gone way too far now. I have a friend who is ashamed of her name and won't post on any public forum because of the stick she gets. Constantly seeing stupid memes.

You may think I'm being too serious but I think it's so derogatory to people who have that name.

OP posts:
PirateCatQueen · 01/12/2020 01:17

Oh my bad, maybe the synonym is @kness

kness · 01/12/2020 01:20

There isn't one.

SkintSanta · 01/12/2020 01:20

We don't have a class system in the UK despite MN trying to act like we do, and even if we did upper middle class doesn't fucking exist. Jesus. Give it a rest with this shit. No body cares if you had a rich posh mum who wouldn't dream of calling you something so common as Karen. The richest, and nicest woman I know is called Karen, and would fucking shudder at someone calling her upper middle class or higher class. Because it is just a way for people to make themselves feel better about their shit middle of the road life that is achieving nothing other than the ability to lord it over people who aren't middle management or up. Get a bloody grip.

EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire · 01/12/2020 01:25

@Sameolesame

It’s an effective way of calling out racist white middle class women, particularly in the US. I personally cannot be worked up by that. If it calls out the abhorrent behaviour of some women then good. I’m not going to feel sorry for racist white women just because there isn’t an equivalent name for racist white men. The solution is to find an equivalent for racist white men rather that have bleeding hearts for racist white women - poor them, poor them.
Why Karen though?
Elizabella · 01/12/2020 01:31

The only male equivalent I can think of is the 'male, pale and stale' thing.

VetiverAndLavender · 01/12/2020 01:36

It’s an effective way of calling out racist white middle class women, particularly in the US. I personally cannot be worked up by that.

It's still stupid, because not all "racist white middle class (American) women" are named Karen, and not all women named Karen are racist, white, or middle-class.

Honestly, it shouldn't be okay with anyone to use any name as a slur. Would you think it was alright if someone took what they thought of as a stereotypical black name and used it as an insult? It would be horrible and wrong, just like this "Karen" crap is.

As PP have said, people who use "Karen" as an insult tend to be lacking in intelligence, from what I've seen online.

lakesidewinter · 01/12/2020 01:40

There is no particular merit to fitting into any group, class based or otherwise.

But anyone who thinks there isn't an underlying class system in the UK is kidding themselves.

No one person is better or worse than another and neither is their name.
But a quick glance at baby name threads will tell you that perceptions about names are alive and well, "chav" and "naughty" for example.

My dm was pretty poor by the time I was born but that didn't change her upbringing and what names she considered suitable and 40 plus years later things aren't changing that fast.
Have you noticed who runs the UK currently? The UK is still class ridden. It isn't a good thing but it is definitely a thing.

SheepandCow · 01/12/2020 01:44

How on earth is calling somebody the name of an individual (and also an oppressed ethnic group) an effective way of calling out racism?? Bizarre!

jessstan1 · 01/12/2020 02:01

It's dreadful, an American import we can do without.

Easy to fix, just not use the term and pick up on anyone who does.

Imagine if your given name was Karen, how would you feel?

PimpleMoose · 01/12/2020 02:02

I think the "there's no male equivalent" thing is a red herring. I dont think theres a female name equivalent for a 'Tom' (i.e. Uncle Tom) but that behavior isnt associated with only black males.

SheepandCow · 01/12/2020 02:08

@PimpleMoose

I think the "there's no male equivalent" thing is a red herring. I dont think theres a female name equivalent for a 'Tom' (i.e. Uncle Tom) but that behavior isnt associated with only black males.
I was just about to go to bed but saw your post... You're using a racist term but are apparently concerned about racism???
DeRigueurMortis · 01/12/2020 02:11

Thought experiment....

Let's take a popular name for black women in middle age.

Then assign derogatory characteristics to that name.

What's being targeted here? The name? The race? The age? The sex?

One thing I'm sure of is the latter three are always a factor.

So I'll always stand with women regardless of race and age and their name.

PimpleMoose · 01/12/2020 02:25

I was just about to go to bed but saw your post... You're using a racist term but are apparently concerned about racism???
It's a term generally used by people in the black community in the US, but have the (predominantly) white women of mumsnet decided that it's not allowed?

DeRigueurMortis · 01/12/2020 02:41

@PimpleMoose

I was just about to go to bed but saw your post... You're using a racist term but are apparently concerned about racism??? It's a term generally used by people in the black community in the US, but have the (predominantly) white women of mumsnet decided that it's not allowed?
The issue is it's not a "term".

It's a name.

A name that many women have who are divergent in political opinions, race, faith and socio economic backgrounds.

It's insulting and deeming to "clump" them all together on the basis of a decision about what they were named was made likely before their birth.

Calling out racist behaviour needs to happen every time.

Ascribing racist behaviour to a fictional stereotype by virtue of a name is not only counter productive but a form of "ism" in itself.

Pot/Kettle....

popshops · 01/12/2020 02:42

@FangsForTheMemory

I call my friend Karen, ‘Karen’, though
So unreasonable, how very dare you Grin
popshops · 01/12/2020 02:44

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

Oh is it rattling posters on here because it’s a term to describe entitled white middle class women Grin

And there hasn’t been a derogatory term used for white working class men who voted Brexit

I've seen Gary being used in memes. Equally unacceptable as Karen.
Delphinium20 · 01/12/2020 02:49

I hate racism. I also hate the use of Karen as a slur. It's undeniably sexist and ignores that white women of middle age do not bear sole responsibility for systematic racism. Slavery and colonialism was driven, controlled and invented by men.

DeeCeeCherry · 01/12/2020 02:57

Would you think it was alright if someone took what they thought of as a stereotypical black name and used it as an insult?

Vetiver you surely cannot have been living under a rock for years..?

To even phrase such a question, when Black people and names have been derided for so many yearsConfused. Yes, there are many people who DO think it's alright actually. HTH

You really think 'Karen' is a direct comparison..

Another example would've been more appropriate

NaturesEnd · 01/12/2020 03:08

Yup it's another way that seeds of division are sown. Along with boomer etc. The Internet has become something awful Sad

DeRigueurMortis · 01/12/2020 03:16

@DeeCeeCherry

Would you think it was alright if someone took what they thought of as a stereotypical black name and used it as an insult?

Vetiver you surely cannot have been living under a rock for years..?

To even phrase such a question, when Black people and names have been derided for so many yearsConfused. Yes, there are many people who DO think it's alright actually. HTH

You really think 'Karen' is a direct comparison..

Another example would've been more appropriate

Ok let's look at your position.

I'm wrong because black names have been used historically to characterise members of the black community?

Would I also be wrong to quote examples of how Jewish names have been used over many centuries to foster suspicion?

You're assuming I think this is/was acceptable?

It was not, in the same way I find utilising
the name of any person, of any race or religious belief to define and worst of all demean/belittle/exploit a whole community deeply despicable.

DeeCeeCherry · 01/12/2020 03:32

Ok let's look at your position

No - don't look at my position DeRigeur. 'Karen' doesn't compare with decade upon decade of racism amounting to civil and human rights abuse based on the colour of one's skin. Mockery of Black names sits alongside that. This is the position you should be looking at.

You appear to have name changed as you're referencing a reply I made to another pp & speaking as if I'd replied to you.

I'm wrong because black names have been used historically to characterise members of the black community?

That's not how you phrased it. & You're changing the context now. You were doing a comparison.

I know what racism is since I have to live with it so I'm more than well-equipped to recognise these comparison games.

lboogy · 01/12/2020 04:37

I understand the use of Karen to call out racism but I find it's now used in any context in which someone doesn't agree with your opinion. Eg someone might give their kids simple carbs and if you comment to say give children better nutrition someone will call you a Karen. Very odd

HappygoLucie · 01/12/2020 05:39

This reply has been deleted

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stampsurprise · 01/12/2020 06:17

My Mum is a Karen by name AND nature - oh boy! Berates sales assistants if she doesn't like the goods in a shop and so on. Embarrassing!

I know that's not really relevant to the thread but it's only too true for me 😂

stampsurprise · 01/12/2020 06:20

Oh and my Karen claims that postmen never used to steal from the mail - it's only "the Asian ones" who do it now that they are "everywhere". Hmm