Can't stand people referring to others as a 'Karen'

[shesellsseashells99]

I'm fed up with seeing it, I really have. it's gone way too far now. I have a friend who is ashamed of her name and won't post on any public forum because of the stick she gets. Constantly seeing stupid memes.

You may think I'm being too serious but I think it's so derogatory to people who have that name.

@Meraas

Can you explain how a young white British man calling a middle-aged white British women ‘a Karen’ for complaining about something in a shop is heroically upholding the cause of anti-racist activism in America? I’m sure it’s obvious and I’m just missing a step, but...

Can you explain why it's the fault of black people in the US that young white British men have hijacked the term to use it about middle-aged white British women and why that means black people should stop using it?

And you’re taking this up with the women pointing out the misogyny rather than the men being misogynistic because...?

@Meraas

Stupid people exist everywhere. A few weeks ago, I heard a middle-aged African American man threaten to call the police on an elderly white woman, because she said that he needed to put his mask on before entering a shop. Mask-wearing is mandatory here ( not the same exemptions as in the UK) and she was being interfering- but to threaten to call the police at the top of your voice?

See this is why I wasn't buying your earlier post, because your response to documented, videographed racism to black people is whatabouttery. Do you also believe in #alllivesmatter ?

Not sure I understand what you’re saying. Are you saying I don’t believe racism exists in the US?

Because I definitely do. I don’t think these hateful incidents are as widespread as you think. I don’t think they’re everyday occurrences.

I could be wrong. I live in a majority African-American area, v. liberal politically.

I still don’t like labels and stereotypes as they create/perpetuate divisions. Perhaps we can agree on that?

'It's a shame that you're more hurt by the use of the word 'white' rather than the frustration, helplessness and bewilderment felt by black people when subjected to racist abuse by white women in the examples listed upthread'

Who said I was 'more hurt'? Both are unacceptable. It is highly ironic and totally hypocritical to argue against racism by making sweeping generalisations based on people's skin colour, saying white white white repeatedly. Have you learnt nothing?

I just find it incredibly childish. Maybe it's because I look after infant and early years children, but it sounds exactly like kids do when they call each other "poo-poo head" or tell each other to "get in the bin".

Come to think of it, I've also seen exactly those comments from some of the people who use "Karen" as an insult. Perhaps they just never matured beyond the age of 6...

Yes it is a horrible lazy stereotype that shows the user up as thick.

I even saw a post from a supposedly feminist social media post using it the other day 🙄

And you’re taking this up with the women pointing out the misogyny rather than the men being misogynistic because...?

Why is it my responsibility to do this? Why don't you take it up with male misogynists @GoldenOmber . You want to do it, crack on, no one is stopping you.

@Meraas

And you’re taking this up with the women pointing out the misogyny rather than the men being misogynistic because...?

Why is it my responsibility to do this? Why don't you take it up with male misogynists @GoldenOmber . You want to do it, crack on, no one is stopping you.

Oh, I do. Often by saying exactly what I'm saying here - that men are using 'Karen' in a way that is misogynistic and has bugger all to do with the dynamics of racism in another country.

Which bit of this is it you're disagreeing over? Do you think all these white British men are only insulting women because of their deep-seated commitment to racial justice, which is just coming out in some odd ways? Do you think they're just overwhelmed with strong feeling about black men murdered by police when they decide to sneer at women complaining about something totally unrelated?

But I'm glad you don't think it's your responsibility to call out male misogynists, whereas you clearly do think it's your responsibility to call out the women objecting to said misogyny for somehow being racist.

This is hilarious reading now apparently Karen is a slur life is too short for this lol some of you have been locked up way too long

Who said I was 'more hurt'? Both are unacceptable. It is highly ironic and totally hypocritical to argue against racism by making sweeping generalisations based on people's skin colour, saying white white white repeatedly. Have you learnt nothing?

The term was created to describe a particular type of entitled racism behaviour from white women, and I have only given examples of that behaviour. You may resent the term 'white' but it's accurate for those examples. I'm not sure what you want me to learn? That it's unacceptable to call out specific types of racist behaviour?

Which bit of this is it you're disagreeing over? Do you think all these white British men are only insulting women because of their deep-seated commitment to racial justice, which is just coming out in some odd ways? Do you think they're just overwhelmed with strong feeling about black men murdered by police when they decide to sneer at women complaining about something totally unrelated?

No, I think that it's unfair to deny black people their way of describing the racist treatment from white people in the US because of what 'young white British men' are doing in the UK.

@Meraas

Add to the list the black girl who was reported to the police by her fellow white alumnus for being in her own common room at Yale. The kicker on that one is that the white girl has pulled the stunt before and yet the police still turned up (three of them) to interrogate the black girl and she had to prove she lived in the dorms. If I was that black girl I would call that girl what ever I wanted. Why should that girl call her an ‘arsehole‘?

Because regardless of what that person did (which was horrendous I agree and should not be allowed to happen), it's not ok to use an ageist, classist and sexist term as a rebuke. And in doing so associate racism with a perfectly normal name of thousands of women most of whom are not racist, shockingly many of them also aren't white. Two wrongs don't make a right. Use another slur. There are plenty of them.

But I'm glad you don't think it's your responsibility to call out male misogynists, whereas you clearly do think it's your responsibility to call out the women objecting to said misogyny for somehow being racist.

I didn't say that it's not my responsibility, I asked why you are making it my responsibility? I think black women are right at the bottom of the pecking order so yes, I do think it's my responsibility to call out racism against them.

@Meraas

Which bit of this is it you're disagreeing over? Do you think all these white British men are only insulting women because of their deep-seated commitment to racial justice, which is just coming out in some odd ways? Do you think they're just overwhelmed with strong feeling about black men murdered by police when they decide to sneer at women complaining about something totally unrelated?

No, I think that it's unfair to deny black people their way of describing the racist treatment from white people in the US because of what 'young white British men' are doing in the UK.

And where is it you think I've denied American black men the right to describe racism in whatever terms they want? I don't recall doing this, but perhaps I made one hell of a typo or something?

@Meraas

But I'm glad you don't think it's your responsibility to call out male misogynists, whereas you clearly do think it's your responsibility to call out the women objecting to said misogyny for somehow being racist.

I didn't say that it's not my responsibility, I asked why you are making it my responsibility? I think black women are right at the bottom of the pecking order so yes, I do think it's my responsibility to call out racism against them.

OK, I don't follow.

Do think that the young white men using Karen as an insult are doing it to stick up for black women, and not, perchance, to give women in general a kicking?

Or do you think that the young white men are, indeed, just being misogynists, but that we should not criticise them for doing this because any criticism of the term 'Karen' used as an insult will somehow harm black women?

Because regardless of what that person did (which was horrendous I agree and should not be allowed to happen), it's not ok to use an ageist, classist and sexist term as a rebuke. And in doing so associate racism with a perfectly normal name of thousands of women most of whom are not racist, shockingly many of them also aren't white. Two wrongs don't make a right. Use another slur. There are plenty of them.

Again, I don't use the term. But I'm not going to rebuke black people for using it to describe a particular kind of behaviour. Maybe you should target racists? There are plenty of them.

Oh my god this thread is gold. The total lack of self awareness

And where is it you think I've denied American black men the right to describe racism in whatever terms they want? I don't recall doing this, but perhaps I made one hell of a typo or something?

Plenty of people on the thread are saying no one should use the term Karen (black or white). I'm not following just your posts so if you don't subscribe to this view, shout.

Do think that the young white men using Karen as an insult are doing it to stick up for black women, and not, perchance, to give women in general a kicking?

No, I don't think they are using it to stick up for black women.

Or do you think that the young white men are, indeed, just being misogynists, but that we should not criticise them for doing this because any criticism of the term 'Karen' used as an insult will somehow harm black women?

No, happy for you to criticise young white men for using it.

@Meraas. But where does it end?

If Black people can label unpleasant middle-aged white women “Karen’s,” can LatinX people use a name for a “type” of person? Could they call an Italian-American a “Wop” as they were labeled in the past?

It’s a slippery slope.

YANBU - it's misogyny and I hate it. I feel truly despondent about the way society is heading in many respects, including cancel culture.

I find the term very irritating now tbh so YANBU. All the Karen’s I know are lovely!

Having read through the thread, I notice that no one defending the ‘Karen’ meme has answered the question as to why the name Karen has been chosen? It’s a common name among middle-aged women; do you really not understand why they don’t like their name being used in this derogatory way?

Plus, in the UK, the ‘Karen’ meme hasn’t been used in an anti-racist context, it’s become a way of shutting down middle-aged women who dare to have an opinion.

What’s the problem with calling out racist white women’s behaviour without using an actual women’s name?

Please at least answer the question why you have to use the name KAREN? Don’t you understand why women with that name might be offended?

I’ve never had that explained in these debates before. Yes white American women who call the police onto black men are vile racists and need to be named and shamed. But why not shame them by using their actual real life names rather than another name, which means that they remain anonymous?

I don't think I would mind if it was my name, I'm happy with who I am and know I'm not a racist, like this woman in the NY Times:

Karen Chang, a Bay Area resident who works in business management, had shrugged off early memes, but then the Amy Cooper video changed everything for her.

“It was very upsetting, but I would sacrifice my name for the visibility and awareness that incident generated,” said Ms. Chang, who is Asian-American. Indeed, she may do just that. She said she’s considering changing her name to “KC” after she and her fiancé eventually wed. “It has always been a term of endearment.”