How many people would vote for the party that scrapped Universal Credit & PIP back to a system of Tax Credits and DLA?

[GroundAlmonds]

Of course I knew the new system was bad and punished the poor, sick and disabled, but I’ve just realised quite how regressive this system is and the true depth of the damage it does. Especially now that we are crashing into another dreadful recession?

How many of you would have your vote swayed purely by this issue?

YANBU = I would use my vote to support the return to Tax Credits & DLA

YABU = UC & PIP are fine.

@Oakmaiden

The current system could work well. Obviously it doesn't right now, but it could be adjusted so that it does, if there was the political will to do it.

We'd need to have the public and media will too. The UN condemned the UK's failing of human rights for the disabled - the fact that so many have died because of benefit 'reforms', 'assessments', and sanctions. Few cared hence it's not really changed.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Wages being too low is very subjective though. It depends on the number of hours worked, the skills people have and the outgoings and choices people make. Many make choices they can’t afford and that’s down to the individual not the state or employers.

We need people to do the often very essential low paid jobs.

Other people need part-time because of disability or illness, or because they're caring for a disabled child or family member.

People changing their skills, etc won't change the fact that, currently, lots of jobs don't provide a living wage - especially with the high cost of housing.

wages being too low is very subjective though

Not really. If people can't afford the basic essentials then they don't have enough.

The essentials include:

• Stable safe condition housing
• (Healthy) food and the facilities to store and cook it
• Gas, electricity, water, council tax
• Transport
• Internet and phone (vital nowadays for all sorts including medical appointments, job applications, and contact with the outside world for the sake of mental health)
• Clothes (for children too)
• Toys for children, etc.

[quote aLilNonnyMouse]@toconclude I've tried that. They agree that I need one but don't have enough funding to cover everyone and since I can walk a few steps and push myself 30 meters or so in a manual chair then people who need it more go first. Which I agree with tbh.[/quote]
Honestly, try the mobility trust. They issue power chairs and scooters.

Their screening questions are whether you’ve been referred to your local wheelchair service, whether they issued you with a manual chair, how far you can self propel, whether you have been awarded higher rate mobility PIP/DLA and what you use it for (motability car duh!).

They recognise that all of that leaves a gap in the statutory services. All they ask is that if you intend to transport the power chair/scooter by car, you get a hoist fitted and that you have a suitable place to keep it.

Madness that a Trust should have to full the gap but there it is.

mobilitytrust.org.uk/

PIP should be reverted back to DLA, but UC is actually a very good idea in principle. It just needs to be implemented by a party who want it to make the life of people claiming multiple benefits easier, rather than a party who want to use it to reduce the benefit budget.

People need to be safe whoever is in power.

@Coseynightin

Plus UC allows 16k before loss of money

It’s not 16k it’s £6k. After 6 and under 16 you’ll lose money.

My son gets PIP, he did get DLA From 3 until 16. Pip was 100 Times easier. The forms are a lot shorter. It was quite painless for us.

@aLilNonnyMouse

I'd rather scrap them both and have a Universal Basic Income system with a new disability benefit run by the NHS that takes into account actual realistic costs of disability.

Do you feel the actual realistic costs of disability are more than what is currently offered?

Also, why does PIP have such a bad reputation? Was DLA better?

@Bobtheshark

From what I heard, PIP is harder for those with less obvious or clear cut disabilities and their impact. Is that correct?

I’ve only claimed PIP, but I know that under the old DLA I’d have been able to access the motability scheme whereas under PIP I can’t (I meet the criteria that I can reliably walk more than 20, but less than 50, metres). I’ve also had to buy my own wheelchair / scooter out of that money, as I’m not considered disabled enough for them.

@Catycity - I’m not sure. My son is on enhanced rate for both. He is fully mobile but has severe learning disabilities. I was dreading the process so was very surprised how much simpler it was. He did have to go for a face to face but as he doesn’t speak we were in and out really quickly. He was just swapped straight over. I believe PIP focuses on what you can do rather than DLA which focuses on what you can’t.

My son and I both received higher payments for PIP than for DLA - we are both on enhanced daily/enhanced mobility for PIP now. On DLA we both had higher care/lower mobility. Similar profile of disabilities. So PIP is definitely better for us. Both of us got a paper assessment for PIP. My DM also gets PIP, but she had never claimed DLA in the past, so I don't know if she would have found got a lower/higher award under DLA. She had a face to face assessment, but she felt it was fair, and she gets enhanced daily/standard mobility, which I think is appropriate for her.

I am getting working tax credits as I run a small business part-time - the disability element really makes a difference for me, and I don't think UC would be paid for me in these circumstances. Plus I have savings over £16k (am saving towards a house deposit) so that would rule me out. The admin behind tax credits works well for me as I decide how much to pay myself as a salary, and I've never had to deal with overpayments. I like the childcare support in tax credits even though it's not as much, because it's easier to administer, I don't have to send any proof of expenses every month.

My DS gets UC and it works well for him - he has LCWRA and it's fairly hands-off, the money just appears in his account every month. I had to sort out his UC50 and although it took ages to fill it in, he didn't have to attend an assessment (we had loads of evidence from his special school and all of his specialist consultants).

I'm not sure if a universal basic income would work well for us. We get our disability benefits, but I also get a disability element on tax credits and my DS gets an addition on his UC. I wonder if we might actually get less on a universal basic income system if it was just a flat rate.

[quote aLilNonnyMouse]@toconclude I've tried that. They agree that I need one but don't have enough funding to cover everyone and since I can walk a few steps and push myself 30 meters or so in a manual chair then people who need it more go first. Which I agree with tbh.[/quote]
Sorry to have assumed you hadn't asked. As some other posts have said, charities may be an option then. Hope you get what you need.

Ultimately who, facing recieving less on one benefit, is going to say that it works better for them?

What is the point if changing a system if the transition doesn't come with changes, and where there are changes, it's inevitable done people will gain and some will lose.

The DLA shift to PIP partially came about due to the number of people given indefinite awards who didn't need indefinite awards.

The transition to PIP allowed retesting to solve this.

People close to me were retested and either got the same amount or even more on PIP as they were getting on DLA.

I've worked in the arena and frankly it was so damned complicated and splitting things between DWP and HMRC just added layers of complexity.

UC was at least a step in the right direction but there's still work to do.