How many people would vote for the party that scrapped Universal Credit & PIP back to a system of Tax Credits and DLA?

[GroundAlmonds]

Of course I knew the new system was bad and punished the poor, sick and disabled, but I’ve just realised quite how regressive this system is and the true depth of the damage it does. Especially now that we are crashing into another dreadful recession?

How many of you would have your vote swayed purely by this issue?

YANBU = I would use my vote to support the return to Tax Credits & DLA

YABU = UC & PIP are fine.

Neither of your options
PIP is awful and needs to revert to DLA. However UC is better than the previous system, the use of the journal, streamlined payments, easy to see what is coming and when. However it needs improving. Rent needs to be easy to pay direct to the landlord without having to get in arrears first. The amounts need to increase and the 5 week wait needs to be changed. However the system, surprisingly, is good. I'd vote for the party that reinstated PIP and made positive changes to UC. In comparison tax credits are a nightmare.

I'd rather scrap them both and have a Universal Basic Income system with a new disability benefit run by the NHS that takes into account actual realistic costs of disability.

However UC is better than the previous system, the use of the journal, streamlined payments, easy to see what is coming and when. However it needs improving

The problems with UC are the targets for sanctions, the lack of extra premiums for the disabled - which leave them on the breadline - and the problem of that the housing payment stops, everything stops. Not to mention the five week wait and the budgeting advances.

There was always a wait in claiming benefits wasn't there? I remember waiting ages when i first claimed tax credits many years ago and i can't remember being offered an advance which would have been really useful. I remember having to borrow off my mum.

Like pp I'd like to see UC reformed rather than a return to tax credits, which were overly complicated and left people open to having to pay back huge amounts. The UC system is better, but needs severe disability premium or equivalent and a transition payment (not loan) to take you over the five week wait, plus other tweaks.

PIP, however, is just shocking

My vote doesn’t count, but I think YABU to think that any government will go backwards. They may change the name of PIP back to DLA but they would never revert back to how DLA was done. They’d come up with a new form and new system and try and save money by sneaking in cuts somehow.
I also don’t see any government after combining many benefits into one universal benefit (UC) for more efficient lower cost administration willingly splitting them back out again as that would mean fewer benefit £ getting to benefits recipients. Especially with the deficit where it is due to Covid.

Neither. To replace the UC system would cost millions and take years - when actually all of the issues people have with it (benefit cap, two child limit, 5 week wait etc) can be reformed within the existing UC framework. I would vote for the party who was pragmatic about the fact that these systems are now in place and instead saw the opportunity to improve them. Most of those changes would be pretty easy to implement I would have thought - including adding additional premiums for disability.

(I don't have experience with DLA/PIP but the same applies - the changes needed should be applied to the existing framework so that they can be rolled out faster to those who need them)

Hmm I don’t think UC needs to revert back I think it’s needs adjusting
There is some positives to universe credits some of which are

It works out more if you have a disabled child on high rate dla than previous System.
Downside it works out less if you have a child on low / middle rate dla.
So this should be looked at.

The care element for carers can be given regardless of how many hours you work where as you can’t get carers at all if you work a certain amount on normal way ( which does still exist )

Old system was set out in previous year wages, so would always be confusing if you were in say a 0 hour contract where as new system is on a monthly basis.

New system does take in to account if you are mortgage vs renting in a way ! ( the amount you can earn before reduction is higher if you are not claiming the rent element so if have a mortgage. However this doesn’t help if you lose your job altogether just if you have less hours of income.

There is defo bad things like the 5 week wait, the decrease amount for low / middle dla.
The benefit cap is also a problem when you live in certain areas.

I'd not vote to change the systems, that would be a huge waste of time and money. As someone above said its can be tinkered with within the current set up.

I don’t think scrapping it is the answer, but it needs a massive overhaul. I think a system based on your current financial circumstances should be better than one based on the previous tax year, especially given how many people right now are struggling despite being fine last tax year.

Things like penalising people who get paid twice in one UC period and then none the next one, the huge wait for new claims to get anything etc urgently need changing. The amount of PIP claims overturned on appeal is ridiculous, instead of being targeted to not pay people they should be targeted to not have their decisions overturned by doing the right thing in the first place (not that appeals should stop overturning cases!)

PIP helps people with mental health problems who may not have been eligible for DLA

It is not clear cut on one being bad / other good.

The UC system helped many claim very quickly during the lockdown, compared to old system

No, I think UC was a step in the right direction and it’s cost too much to dismantle. I’d vote for the party that has a safety net for those who need it in bad times but who encourages personal responsibility and had caps etc.

Tax credits and their minimum of just sixteen hours work didn't encourage people to self suppport.

I’m still on the tax credit system and really worried about potentially having to move to UC. Mainly because currently I know exactly how much I am getting each week whereas UC payments seem to fluctuate. I dislike that you can’t have savings with it as this doesn’t help encourage putting money aside for things you might need such as a new car, white goods etc. I don’t like that you have to do work interviews etc if you earn under a certain amount or do part time even though you’re working already and may have other reasons why you have chosen these.

These days TC have your up to date annual pay details as all the systems are linked now so the errors are far fewer than in the early years.

@Tumbleweed101

I’m still on the tax credit system and really worried about potentially having to move to UC. Mainly because currently I know exactly how much I am getting each week whereas UC payments seem to fluctuate. I dislike that you can’t have savings with it as this doesn’t help encourage putting money aside for things you might need such as a new car, white goods etc. I don’t like that you have to do work interviews etc if you earn under a certain amount or do part time even though you’re working already and may have other reasons why you have chosen these.

These days TC have your up to date annual pay details as all the systems are linked now so the errors are far fewer than in the early years.

Not being able to save anything is the worst part of benefits right now. I need a new power wheelchair but as the cost is above the amount I'm allowed to save up I'm effectively banned from buying one.

I've been stuck inside the house for 4 years now because of this.

I agree with the PPs that UC needs fixing (cap removed etc) not reverting back to TC.
UC is a much better system in many ways. I was overpaid every year on TC, despite reporting changes immediately. If I did any overtime they assumed it was a pay rise so deducted the higher wage even when I was back on my lower wage. I've never had that happen with UC.
Im still waiting to hear about my PIP claim, and never claimed DLA so can't comment on which was better.

Not me because tax credits were bloody poorly run. DH found a mistake in our child tax credits EVERY SINGLE YEAR we claimed for them. Never in our favour either.

@aLilNonnyMouse

Contact your local wheelchair service (I am assuming you are in UK) - you should be able to get an assessment via NHS.

@toconclude I've tried that. They agree that I need one but don't have enough funding to cover everyone and since I can walk a few steps and push myself 30 meters or so in a manual chair then people who need it more go first. Which I agree with tbh.

I had a variable income so tax credits was a nightmare, never right!
UC was a right pita to set up, however, we've been on UC almost 2 years now and can only say that in our experience (I can only speak as I find) it's been a much better system for us than TC

@GroundAlmonds It’s a complete myth about sanctions targets

@aLilNonnyMouse

I'd rather scrap them both and have a Universal Basic Income system with a new disability benefit run by the NHS that takes into account actual realistic costs of disability.

yes.

I far prefer universal credit to tax credits. It is much more straightforward.

Why should you benefit from savings on the Universal Credit? If you are saving money surely you don’t need it? Isn’t that what it’s for?

Plus UC allows 16k before loss of money

what about the person who cannot save up for the wheelchair they need.
this is the problem. until you've experienced it, esp re disability issues, extra costs, it's hard to imagine.

What tumbleweed said. Also allowing savings promotes independence long term as people can save a deposit for a home which then gives an incentive to work more to be able to secure a mortgage. Long term there are no housing costs to be paid in old age and the person pays more tax/claims less help in their younger life too. And finally it helps with care costs if needed (I know that is controversial and a bit of a separate issue). It allows people who need specific equipment such as a pp on here to have the dignity of being able to buy the items and have a better life. It allows children to have a boost at uni or other training which reduces the likelihood of benefit dependency later on. The list goes on. I'm not saying people with lottery wins in the bank should get UC but there needs to be a more reasonable cut off.