AIBU to think the Catholic Church should take itself off?

[HolyMalign]

My daddy grew up in a Catholic institution.

I was born in the 70s and we didn't talk about things. I went to church every week, I prayed, I did what you did. But I had a pretty ropey home life and I hated my daddy for it.

It was only when I was an adult that I realised what his childhood was like and why he was so messed up. So I understand, but it's affected me. And it's certainly affected my daddy.

In the last few years I've been following women who have uncovered even more terrible things that the church did, even worse than would have happened to my daddy. Babies in sewers and mass graves. It is disgusting.

But still these fuckers tell people what to do and have such a hold on their lives.

My daddy is in his seventies now and won't have a word said against the church that fucked him over. There must be so many people like him. It's brainwashing. The church has done nothing for him but abuse him and cause him misery and he is not alone. There are millions of other former children and living women out there who have similarly suffered.

Why do we let these people have such power still when we now know they are abusive rapist murderers?

Catholic blood??

[quote DonnaQuixotedelaManchester]@HollyCarrot I agree that the bad stuff is so depraved I don’t think it can be cancelled out by the good.

However, my view is that until we have an infrastructure in all societies la does what the church does in the laces not does it , it will continue. We need to find ways to bring the community and collectivism to places that need it and I do believe we are slowly getting there.[/quote]
I'm not sure we're getting there tbh. There are so many assaults on women's rights. I still haven't shaken off the abortion referendum. The things that were said about women on the news and Prime Time I will never forget. Nor will I forget the abuse I got canvassing for repeal.

Long-term, the Catholic church appears to have very little influence on birth control use or family size. Predominantly Catholic countries don't seem to have any more babies than anywhere else. Having seven kids has not been the norm for Catholic families in British isles (UK, Ireland) since the 19th century! Even in Ireland, the fertility rate had fallen to about four kids per woman by the middle of the 20th century, despite the difficulties in accessing modern birth control in Ireland at that time.

My ds attended a Catholic primary school as a non Catholic, they did their best to try to brainwash him in to believing, he knew all the crossing & when to stand up at Mass but age 7 announced in class to his teacher that he didn't believe in God & was an atheist, I got a phone call from the head speculating that I had tried to go against their teachings & ethos. I hadn't, he had been doing some googling as he wasn't sure if what he was being taught was true, just like he googled lots of things like if dinosaurs really ruled the earth & made his own mind up, it was one of my proudest moments, he had never been baptised, I had always taught him that religion was a very personal thing & his own choice, you didn't need to go to church or believe in anything to be a good person

I was raised Catholic in the 70s in England.
Made my FHC in 1972 or thereabouts.
My darling Mum had recently divorced my abusive/controlling Father.
After the service there was a tea for all the children, my mum took me straight home (in all my finery, lovely white dress and all).
Turns out we’d been banned due to her divorce. I have never forgotten the shame and exclusion I felt at 7 years old because of that.

If the catholic church were to suddenly not exist, the people who were responsible for or complicit with these nasty things would simply move on and set up a new church. If for some reason they were banned, they'd just go underground and be even harder to monitor.

@OfaFrenchmind2

Nice to see that bashing the Papists is still well in force for the Brits.

What makes you sure the OP is a 'Brit' ?

I'm fairly confident the poster is Irish, based on certain points she makes.

I think there is a lot of understandable anger and frustration about various things done by the CC in Ireland. That said, I think the OP would be wise to accept that just as she has her opinions, her father will have his, too. Not much to gained by arguing with relatives about this kind of thing.

I was raised a RC. Had my dc baptised but that is it. When I was explaining to my dh about First Confession he was absolutely appalled and said that a seven year old has absolutely nothing to confess and he certainly wouldn’t be allowing any child our ours to go into a dark box with a stranger. To be honest, seeing it through his eyes made me re-think my entire childhood.

Personally I have had good experiences with 2 wonderful priests who married us and baptised our dc. But I don’t have the absolute faith in priests that my dm had, particularly when it comes to my dc. I do think that the guilt that is encouraged simply for living a normal life is extremely damaging and it isn’t how I have chosen to raise my own dc.

That said, faith is important to many and there are many good priests who do wonderful work but are overshadowed by the abusers. I was taught about evolution, contraception and other religions at a RC school in the 90’s and as I have already said, both priests that I have met and had dealings with were relatively ‘modern’ and very supportive to me and dh and our family.

The Catholic Church has behaved appalling in the past and much more should be done to hold itself accountable but I have felt that Pope Francis has brought about a positive change. He seems keen to tackle the greed and complacency within the church and that is a start.

@GoldenOmber

The Catholic church is a cancer that should be eradicated

What would eradicating it look like, in practice? There are about 1 billion Catholics in the world...

And replace it by.... Eradicate the believers, now that's nice isn't it?

@grosspointisland

I can't take any adult seriously when they call a parent daddy 🙄

My dad was a catholic priest, he quit, married my mum, here I am. They’re both still Catholics, I’m not.

The church has done some grim things. It should be criticized and prosecuted for the awful things that have happened.

But disbanded? Who would be responsible for that? They are also not the only church who has committed atrocities.

Something an Irish friend once told me came as a real shock as regards brainwashing. We’re almost exactly the same age and I was brought up in England, nominally C of E, i.e. very relaxed.

She said that when they were all about 14 she and a group of friends were out in their (Irish) city when they happened to pass the (presumably only) Protestant church.
The door happened to be standing open. And one of them said, ‘Dare we go inside?’
The others were appalled at the mere idea - surely they’d be struck dead?
But the brave girl did go in. The others watched, so fearful, waiting for the thunderbolt to strike her dead at any moment.

But the girl just stood there looking around, and after a moment said, ‘It’s just like our church!’

From then on, my friend said, the brainwashing ‘curse’ was lifted, and she became sceptical about so many things that had been dinged into her from a small child. Shed always been taught by nuns, many of whom were endlessly banging on about ‘mortal sin’ - especially anything related to sex or being a Protestant! - and the fires of hell.

Should have added, this was quite a long time ago now. My friend, now living back in Ireland, is very glad that her own children have not been brainwashed like that.

I entirely agree with the op
All religion is poison but the Catholic church is especially toxic

I was brought up in the catholic faith, attended church every Sunday and went to catholic schools. I 100% agree with you OP.

My mum and her siblings were brainwashed by it, wouldn’t hear a bad word against it. Bizarre as they are otherwise intelligent, sensible people. Anyone who thinks celibate men should be giving sex and family advice to women is off their rocker! The misogyny was outrageous and not even hidden. Plus the homophobia. And the subtle hinting that anyone from any other religion was “other” and therefore wrong and bad. I genuinely was afraid of people from the CofE religion until I was 18, went to uni and realised they were exactly the same as us!

I think that personal faith (or lack of) is great and valid, and that books on faith issues can be a great resource, but the religious institutions need to be gone. So outdated and completely hypocritical. Yes they do some good but no reason why they can’t just be converted to charities focused on relief of poverty and loneliness - no need to bring god or morals into it.

People from all walks of life do bad things and abuse their power, there have been instances in the Church of England, schools, care homes and even in the Police.

I don't think any of these establishments including the catholic church should end.
I do think that when bad things happen, not only should the offender be brought to justice but also those who didn't question it, challenge it or report it. As those who dont do this are allowing the bad people to take advantage others and therefor are just as guilty.
I think the police have even changed in the sense that you will have to account for why you didnt report bad stuff or challenge it and possibly even be disciplined for it as well as the one who did it.

I'm not actually talking about the victim by the way, Im talking about those who know its happening to others but keep out of it in stead of stepping in and helping to protect the victim.

@Shoxfordian. Worse than Jehovah’s Witness? Really? That suggests to me your issue is about something else. (A hatred of Catholic people rather than the RC Church)

Why do we let these people have such power still when we now know they are abusive rapist murderers?

We dont. The Catholic doesn't have any power in the West anymore

I am an atheist and have no skin in the game but i think it's too easy to blame the church, Catholic or otherwise for the awful stuff people did to each other, (and still do), vile, evil, people. Yes they hide behind the church, but ultimately it is people and wider society that allow bad stuff to happen. Perhaps your father finds some sort of comfort in clinging to religion despite everything, if so is there really any point trying to 'save' him from it?

We dont. The Catholic doesn't have any power in the West anymore

Well except from over the millions of indoctrinated children and brainwashed followers.

I find it fascinating that so many believers will try to defend the indefensible with lines like "oh but they do more good than bad" or "other groups do bad stuff too".

Wonder if the same people would jump to Keith Raniere's defence too?

@teateateateateamoretea

I really don’t want to defend it - I agree with much of the criticism but it is important people recognise that some existing members of the Church are victims of their abuse - that is who you are attacking. Others have turned to the Church whhh egg n all else has failed. It may also be worth pointing out to those who don’t know this, that many Catholics are silly that as a question of birth in countries where the Church is in power and it is no longer possible to leave the RC. For some nationalities, the Church is their administrative state. In Ireland, the church ran the schools and hospitals. If you are poor, isolated in a country like this what do you do if you your family need medical help? RC communities are set up in parishes with people you attend school with - you know that they are ok people so who in the Church should leave?

I really do think that there is particular poster who always intervened in posts like this to get a dig in at the RC. There is never any credibility with their posts. All communities have abuse unfortunately and hide it. It’s people that commit abuse - and they hide wherever they can. At the time when the Britishnpress was at its most vitriolic at the RC church and education whilst failing to acknowledge the imbalance in education equality caused by private schools, was the time when all of those girls were being violated in Rotherham and surrounding.

@DonnaQuixotedelaManchester

I haven't seen the same systematic abuse of children and young women in Jehovahs Witnesses. Don't believe there was a magdalen laundries equivalent either. I do think catholicism has more to answer for although both are bad, as per, all religion being a form of poison

you're talking about the last century though. Not now.