AIBU to ask if anyone here still thinks Brexit is a good idea?

[Sundiamond]

There was a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

Does anyone still believe that Brexit is a good move and we, as a country, will gain more than we will lose?

Do you know why we voted like this?
Because the deal we made was for trade and trade only
Slowly over 40 years the EU instituted a power grab, rules we as the general public were never allowed to vote on were introduced

Schooled, lived and worked in the UK since 1975 and have never really noticed any "power grab"
Plus, over many GE's we have voted to support parties that were pro EU.

If the UK can Prosper Mightily outside of the eu without a FTA, then why is Johnson trying hard to get one?

atm he is playing politics to be seen to have negotiated hard and get a deal he can sell to the uk and that will be solely on fishing, bizarrely something hardly anyone does or knows anything about., Newlyn fisherman, having voted for brexit are now worried because they lose the markets they sell into, we don't eat what they catch.

@TheSandman

One thing today’s posts have made me realise us just how much it wasn’t a vote for anything apart from a “fuck you” to the establishment.

Sadly the establishment seems to be quite happy to say, " No. Fuck you!" right back.

Absolutely. I bet the establishment couldn't believe their luck, getting so many people to vote for their own demise. Wasn't it Fromage's friend Trump who said that he loved poorly educated people? I'm sure Nige felt the same way.

So why didn't Remain shout louder.
The truth is they thought there was no way to lose so instead went after Leave, instead of shouting how good the EU were.
We also have when DC got shafted by the EU over his demands.
The EU were complacent in their view that Leave was not an option.
They came over as Bullies and helped by accident to create a perfect storm.

@mummmy2017

So how come Remain did not front page all these known facts. Reading past thread non of the posters brought up 90% of these issues till after the vote. DC should have made the case for how great the EU was, he failed you, big style, then ran away....

Murdoch's empire.

Very simplistic view. The Leave campaign had many people high up. It was all propaganda peddled to the masses. It was the baseless figure of £350m to the NHS on the side of a bus, blasé statements like 'take back control'. People coming out with tripe like 'we can create our own laws when we're free from the EU' - what laws were they unhappy with?

They came over as Bullies and helped by accident to create a perfect storm.
Warning of consequences is bullying
R-I-G-H-T

You're going to love trying to complain to the WTO when it rules against the UK

Project Fear is turning into Project Truth.

The Telegraph should hang their heads in shame for the article claiming that NEW RULES mean that we can't stay in the EU for more than 3 months.

These are not new rules they are rules for countries with third country status which is exactly what we become with a no deal Brexit.

This was not about Remain not campaigning well enough it was about Leave Lies and the shouting of Project Fear to the Remain campaigners.

As it stands anyone who wants to travel or is a second home owner or anyone who travels with a Pet Passport is in for a rude awakening come January 1st.

But that's ok because Fish, oh but ......

Bullies! What a load of crap.
DC's demands were more cakeism.
After 40 odd years slagging off the EU how was the govt then going to turn around and say how good things really were? As pp said it would have shown the govt up as the architects of the demise of the UK.
Rupert Fucking Murdoch and the other non-doms who own most of the "free press" hated the EU and spend decades attacking it. Do you think they were going to publish the truth in any of their rags?

None so blind etc.

We also have when DC got shafted by the EU over his demands

DC got much of what he wanted from the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105

So why didn't Remain shout louder
Oh come on mummy, what is your point? Of course a piece in the ft, or a column in the Guardian or a report by the cbi is not going to grab as much attention as ‘Up yours Delors’ or articles about ww2 complete with pictures of spitfires in the daily hate.

They tap into peoples emotions don’t they? And that’s before you even start on Cambridge analytica churning out from a Russian troll factory onto Facebook, all funded by shady millions.

Are you saying that the current situation is all the fault of remainers for not lying shouting loud enough?

So Brexit is now Remains fault for not shouting loud enough 🤯

9 Million on a leaflet to every home, about how good the EU was.
BBC still are Remain, do you forget the reports on this, how Remain were top heavy on most shows.
The lectures from the movies.
The bias was amazing.
A proven fact .

No I am saying you had your chance to voice your views, you lost.
You were outvoted.
Now you have to accept that and concentrate on what is happening in a month.

Now you have to accept that and concentrate on what is happening in a month.
Which is WHAT exactly ?

@mummmy2017

9 Million on a leaflet to every home, about how good the EU was. BBC still are Remain, do you forget the reports on this, how Remain were top heavy on most shows. The lectures from the movies. The bias was amazing. A proven fact .

Your point being? The proven fact being?

However you might look at developing a career as a lyricist for musical theatre.

-sigh-

I think most people get the fact that the vote to leave won. And we’ve left.

You said upthread that you didn’t/don’t care about the outcome or aftermath of the vote. Yet you’re also saying we should concentrate about what’s happening in a month. Seeing as you’re concentrating on it so much, what do you think is going to happen?

However you might look at developing a career as a lyricist for musical theatre

Beats cyber I guess

@mummmy2017

No I am saying you had your chance to voice your views, you lost. You were outvoted. Now you have to accept that and concentrate on what is happening in a month.

Yes I'm concentrating on what is happening in a month -

Restrictions on Freedom of Movement
No longer covered under the European EHIC health care scheme
Driving Licence probably no longer adequate - need international driving licence
Insurance Green Card required to drive in France
Pet Passport no longer valid, we travel regularly with our dog and no longer will be able to do this without at least 4 months notice.

Those are the personal ramifications of this for me aside from the bigger issues of damage to the economy, food shortages etc.

Yes I can accept the outcome but we were told not to worry about these things, they were project fear and that Boris would pull off an oven ready deal which would somehow protect our sovereignty without any negative effects - all lies.

But Mummy2017 thinks that there is no right to complain about the fact that we've been lied to from the slogan on the bus about the NHS to the fact that these were all the nasty project fear worries that no one had to worry about.

It doesn't and shouldn't work like that. Politicians and the press should be accountable to the people for their lies. Follow the money. There is a distinct group of people who stand to gain from Brexit, they are not us.

www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/bbcs-bias-brexit-has-proven-beyond-doubt-move-tim-davie/

Well there is the slight problem nothing has been agreed, and my Crystal Ball is in storage.

@mummmy2017

www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/bbcs-bias-brexit-has-proven-beyond-doubt-move-tim-davie/

Well there is the slight problem nothing has been agreed, and my Crystal Ball is in storage.

You're right nothing has been agreed but there are 32 days left and we are in a pandemic and the Christmas break takes up some of that time. We are not in a strong bargaining position.

Even the GOV.uk website is now citing the worst case scenario on the basis that there is not going to be a deal.

But maybe Boris will pull something out of the bag in typical 'Boris saves Christmas style'.

We can only hope.

Certainly not thanking him for his role in getting us in this position in the first place whatever the outcome.

I'm concentrating on what is happening at the end of next month.
That's why I got Irish citizenship for my daughter and Irish passports for all of us in our house.
That's why I have a buffer of food and supplies in.
That's why I am trying to convince my dh that although our generation of voters has fucked this country up for the foreseeable, our DD is free to live and work wherever she likes (including here in the Uk) and maybe her generation will fix the fucking stupid mess.

@bellinisurge

I'm concentrating on what is happening at the end of next month. That's why I got Irish citizenship for my daughter and Irish passports for all of us in our house. That's why I have a buffer of food and supplies in. That's why I am trying to convince my dh that although our generation of voters has fucked this country up for the foreseeable, our DD is free to live and work wherever she likes (including here in the Uk) and maybe her generation will fix the fucking stupid mess.

So envious of the Irish Passports...

I'm trying to work out where we can move to in the increasingly likely event of no deal.

This page is depressing
www.gov.uk/transition

[quote ListeningQuietly]This page is depressing
www.gov.uk/transition[/quote]
yes that's what I was referring to.

I was feeling depressed before. I travel extensively in Europe with my autistic kids and dog in a motorhome, they are not able to be in mainstream school due to their needs. Cheers Brexit.