AIBU to ask if anyone here still thinks Brexit is a good idea?

[Sundiamond]

There was a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

Does anyone still believe that Brexit is a good move and we, as a country, will gain more than we will lose?

Brexit fans are a bit like a cult. Many will not accept there are serious repercussions and will just tell you it’s all scaremongering if you try to point them out. I don’t bother discussing it offline as it just leads to bad feelings, but I’m very worried about what January will bring.

Many will not accept there are serious repercussions and will just tell you it’s all scaremongering if you try to point them out

I wonder if this is why on these threads what really seems to matter is offending the sensibilities of leavers as opposed to recognising the losses of rights and freedoms and future prosperity that remainers wanted to retain and which have been removed against our will in a referendum that was founded on lies.

@akerman

Many will not accept there are serious repercussions and will just tell you it’s all scaremongering if you try to point them out

I wonder if this is why on these threads what really seems to matter is offending the sensibilities of leavers as opposed to recognising the losses of rights and freedoms and future prosperity that remainers wanted to retain and which have been removed against our will in a referendum that was founded on lies.

Well, exactly. If after 4 years we are still incandescent with rage about having our rights taken away, why do people think telling us to get over it is going to work? That shows just how hard of thinking some people really are. I don't care if Leaver's sensibilities are offended because I am still completely gutted.

@akerman

Many will not accept there are serious repercussions and will just tell you it’s all scaremongering if you try to point them out

I wonder if this is why on these threads what really seems to matter is offending the sensibilities of leavers as opposed to recognising the losses of rights and freedoms and future prosperity that remainers wanted to retain and which have been removed against our will in a referendum that was founded on lies.

Did you vote Tory in 2015?

Always thought it was awful and now it’s even more of a shitshow than anticipated.

I've never voted Tory in my life, no.

I don't care if Leaver's sensibilities are offended because I am still completely gutted.

Me too. It's a bit like being burgled, having your carpet shat on, and then being asked to take the burglar's sensibilities in consideration by not calling him a 'thief'.

The ERG and UKIP were/are lying conmen. A lot of people fell for their lies and now cannot admit they were conned because that would make them feel like idiots.

I had to cut out several people out of my life. I'm usually fine with people voting for what they believe in even if they are utterly wrong. Buy if you intentionally choose to shit on your family and friends, and then gloat about it - expect no respect.

@akerman

I've never voted Tory in my life, no.

Nor me. None of this would have happened but for them.

Do you know why we voted like this?
Because the deal we made was for trade and trade only.
Slowly over 40 years the EU instituted a power grab, rules we as the general public were never allowed to vote on were introduced.
UKIP forced DC's hand , he bit and ran with it because he was so sure he understood the views of the UK.
So when you offer 17 Million plus people a vote on something they never expected, can you be surprised their view is vote out and let's deal with what happens after we leave.

Slowly over 40 years the EU instituted a power grab, rules we as the general public were never allowed to vote on were introduced

You had representation in the form of your MEP.

Did you ever even vote in an election?

We had vetos and favourable agreements for all kinds of things, so some kind of narrative that we’ve been pushed around by the EU is just laughable.

can you be surprised their view is vote out and let's deal with what happens after we leave.
The UK left the EU in January.
How well do you think the UK Government are dealing with the long term implications?

As it is the terms of trade and trade only that we are rather stuck on.

No, it was never just trade. Ted Heath’s letter to the nation in 1972 makes that clear

can you be surprised their view is vote out and let's deal with what happens after we leave.

I would have expected people to give some thought to how it impacted trade deals, peace treaties, key relationships we already had. Or to think about what kind of connection we wanted with the EU in the future? Or what trade would replace EU trade if we went down the route of limiting that?

Is that totally unreasonable?

@mummmy2017

Do you know why we voted like this?
Because the deal we made was for trade and trade only.
Slowly over 40 years the EU instituted a power grab, rules we as the general public were never allowed to vote on were introduced.
UKIP forced DC's hand , he bit and ran with it because he was so sure he understood the views of the UK.
So when you offer 17 Million plus people a vote on something they never expected, can you be surprised their view is vote out and let's deal with what happens after we leave.

This.

I am calling people idiots

Isitsnowingyet yes, you call leavers idiots but you let upthread posts by Remainers like “I didn’t know there was an EU flag’ stand without comment?

Well, not long to go now.

I think it’s entirely reasonable to expect food shortages that make this springs panic buying look like a walk in the park, and this may bring unrest; it was kicking off in places back in April and that was with no interruption in the supply chain.

If things get bad, leavers, who will you blame? Will it be the government who put us all in this situation by not preparing? Or will it be the EUs fault?

I think it will be the latter, and I fear racism and xenophobia will increase.

If things get bad, leavers, who will you blame? Will it be the government who put us all in this situation by not preparing? Or will it be the EUs fault?

I think if the last four years have taught me anything it's that even if there are food/medicine shortages, (even more) job losses and bloodshed returning to the streets of NI no Leave voter will regret or rethink their vote. Any price is worth it and any problems will be blamed on the EU/ the WTO/ remainers (not cheering Brexit hard enough) / immigrants/anyone and anything else. One thing is certain, they will NEVER blame Brexit or the people told them a pack of lies to sell it to them.

We will not be blaiming anyone.
How hard is it to understand, 17 Million grabbed a grabbed a once only chance.
Most of us the morning after were OMG the Remainers fucked up on a massive scale, like DC you just never invisioned people turning out in such numbers to leave.
We know and don't care about the after mass, we care that we will no longer be tied to the EU.

Those who think the EU and its previous incarnations were about trade and trade only are deluded because trade is never about trade only. It’s always about influence, power and politics as well. The EU was and is relatively benign in this respect. Rather less so are some other great powers/economic blocs.
We’ve shot ourselves in the foot royally, mostly through the ignorance and hubris - and in some cases, financial self-interest - of those who voted leave.

An example of this thinking was the poster up thread who put together an apparently reasoned argument for voting Leave. She honestly believed that being in the EU was costing us more money than Brexit would. No amount of facts and figures put infront of her could shake that belief. And this person was doing a phd!!!

we care that we will no longer be tied to the EU.
but it is still 22 miles away from Kent and a few centimetres from Northern Ireland
it is still where we get much of our fresh food
it is still where many of us take holidays
so we will most definitely be tied to it
just no longer part of controlling it

If things get bad, leavers, who will you blame? Will it be the government who put us all in this situation by not preparing? Or will it be the EUs fault?

I think it will be the latter, and I fear racism and xenophobia will increase.

Of course and the sad thing is that no mainstream politician will stand up and say this is what you voted for, challenge the Brexiteers promises and so the narrative will remain that the EU is fundamentally a bad thing and that it is English exceptionalism, nationalism, Empire/WW2 nostalgia, etc which is the best.

Same distance between USA and Russia, they seem to be ok.

We know and don't care about the after mass
What do you feel the aftermath will be? Why do you not care about it?