AIBU to ask if anyone here still thinks Brexit is a good idea?

[Sundiamond]

There was a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

Does anyone still believe that Brexit is a good move and we, as a country, will gain more than we will lose?

The vote was in or out, not hard to understand.

I can’t believe we’re 4 years in and people are still talking like this.

We STILL don't know know the terms of being out

@contrmary

The pro-Brexit posters, I'm interested to know what your thoughts are on Scotland and N Ireland's place in the Union post Brexit?

N. Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England will all have the same place they do now, unless they choose otherwise.

I don't think England or Wales will vote to leave the UK. N Ireland might but even the ROI govt recognise this can only be done via a referendum and I doubt there is enough support for it. In any case, it would be a bloodbath if it were to happen and I doubt the people in Dublin really want that.

As for Scotland, the main driver for independence is the SNP. They would be driving for independence regardless of what is done by the UK govt, regardless of Brexit. Their populist style doesn't require a particular set of circumstances because they will push independence regardless of the benefit or harm it would cause their country.

It's surprising how many Scots seem to have been hoodwinked, but then it's the same as with Brexit. Both are very similar, and the reasons they were/will be voted for are the same: blame foreigners for your problems, and promise a golden future despite having no actual plans for making it work.

At least if Scotland do leave it will give the rest of the UK a chance to play the role the EU have in the Brexit negotiations - Scotland literally wouldn't have any leverage whatsoever, given that oil exports will be worthless in a few years.

You talk about the rest of the UK voting for what is happening with regards Brexit - this is nonsense.

If every single MP in NI, Wales and Scotland backed an issued but the Tories disagreed they can easily get gazumped in any Westminster vote.

The governance of the UK is fundamentally flawed. Realistically, unless you are a Tory voter or a Labour voter (when they were in charge) you don't have a voice in Westminster.

Yes and the elected Boris Johnson has just got rid of him [his unelected SPAD] after a year or so due to democratic pressure to do so.

The idea that BJ got rid of DC due to democratic pressure to do so is one of the quaintest things I've read in a long time.

FWIW, I believe if NI were to leave the UK it would initially be as an independent state supported by the EU until an All Ireland solution can be agreed.

Politics or Nationalism/Unionism aside. Shared public services on the island of Ireland is the only logical solution. Imagine post no deal Brexit of there is a hard border and someone in Derry requires a specialist surgery, it is available in Letterkenny (Donegal - 30 mins away). However, due to Brexit it is not an option so they have to fly to Birmingham at the cost of the NHS.

It is mental.

The entire population of Ireland is smaller than the population of London, yet we have two different governments and two sets of pubic services. It is crazy.

Looking at this picture of the WTO staff team
www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/vacan_e/vacan_e.htm
I suspect that the UK's
they need us more than we need them will not go down too well

Biden's new team are not likely to give Johnson the time of day

Barnier has no reason to be flexible on fisheries because the UK is a net exporter

So the path forwards from here will be interesting

Biden's new team are not likely to give Johnson the time of day

"Senator Chris Coons, a close ally of the new President, said that the Prime Minister was “more agile, engaging, educated and forward looking than perhaps the caricature of him in the American press would have suggested”.

"He told the BBC: “The reality is that the current Government in the UK shares a number of the biggest priorities that a new Biden/Harris administration will have. Principally combating climate change, finding ways to work together on privacy and security issues, and promoting democracy in the world.”

The governance of the UK is fundamentally flawed. Realistically, unless you are a Tory voter or a Labour voter (when they were in charge) you don't have a voice in Westminster.
I agree. I suspect more people would have felt able to support the LIb Dems in an attempt to prevent Brexit at the last election if we'd had PR.
Then again, if PR had reflected the votes UKIP (or the Greens for that matter) got, we might never have had the EU referendum.

Clav
You must have that Coons quote bookmarked. You post it all the time. Does not make it policy though.

You post it all the time

Three or four times perhaps - not bookmarked - I use advanced search.

4 years down the line.

4 weeks and 4 days to go before January 1st.

Do I think this is going to be good for the UK?

No. I don't.

How much money has been spent on Brexit all ready?

Have a look at this link

fullfact.org/europe/online-cost-brexit-net-contributions/

In short - it's a shit show and those who voted for all this were complete and utter idiots. End of.

HTH

In short - it's a shit show and those who voted for all this were complete and utter idiots. End of.
You win the thread with this fantastic original observation.

Yaaaaawwwwn

Also, now we’ve dealt with a global pandemic, Brexit looks like a piece of piss in comparison!

I'm not calling people idiots
I'm just wondering where the people who voted for this want to go from here.

The WTO is not a panacea
an EU trade deal is not a panacea
Biden will not offer a panacea

The current government will not level anybody up who did not go to Eton or Winchester

Even if it weren't a bad idea from the economic point of view, permanent harm has been done to the union and it's really hard to see how the govt counters the massive boost Brexit has given and will continue to give to Scottish and Welsh nationalism. Even more so, it's really hard to see how Brexit doesn't result in a united Ireland, possibly in the fairly near future.

Right ho

And you win another prize for your totally amazing and witty sarcasm.

Thanks for my prize though - I will treasure it forever.

@Dongdingdong - yeah - yawwwwwwn right back at you -

my comment was directed at the aptly named @DynamoKev

This is a bit tedious now. These threads come up every now and then to draw out some Brexit voters and then gang up on them and hurl abuse. All the same stuff is churned over again and again and it gives those who voted remain an opportunity to have a rant and to feel all superior . There is fuck all we can do about any of this now so may as well give it a rest and stop the divisiveness. You wonder why most who voted to leave don't reply on these threads? It's because they just get abuse and attacked. I am for us remaining by the way

@ListeningQuietly I am calling people idiots, You're being much more measured and kind in your arguments. And articulate! I think I'm just gonna go and change my username...

more agile, engaging, educated and forward looking than perhaps the caricature of him in the American press would have suggested

Oh dear! It doesn't sound like the American press (and possibly public) have a very good impression of Johnson, it sound like they're laughing at him (and therefore us).

Now the UK needs to look forwards.

Already looking forward to when we rejoin.

There is fuck all we can do about any of this now so may as well give it a rest and stop the divisiveness

There is still a lot that can be done to minimise the negative consequences of Brexit, or to reverse them.

In particular there's an important debate to be had about the future of the UK as a state, and how much English people care about the Union.

This idea that Brexit as a topic is going to go away is just wishful thinking - it's been surprisingly (in view of the imminence of the end of transition) absent from public concerns but that is going to change dramatically over the next month.

I don’t feel superior. I feel very frightened about what the future will bring and angry and upset about what I’ve lost. I really don’t give a shit about being right. It’s all a bit more serious than that.

There is still a lot that can be done to minimise the negative consequences of Brexit, or to reverse them

I agree but the debates on these threads are mostly about why people voted to leave which we can't do anything about now. That ended with the general election last year unfortunately

Snowing
I gave up confronting Brexiter's head on a long time ago.
Its pointless.
But sadly so is asking them to explain what they think will happen
to quote Jane Austen again
"my affections and wishes"
are unchanged since 2016
but reality has moved on