AIBU to ask if anyone here still thinks Brexit is a good idea?

[Sundiamond]

There was a time when the board was alive with argument around Brexit.

Does anyone still believe that Brexit is a good move and we, as a country, will gain more than we will lose?

It’s also slightly amusing, that the party that has bought unprecedented change, disruption and division is called:

The Conservative and unionist party.

You couldn’t make this shit up.

@Lonelycrab

It’s also slightly amusing, that the party that has bought unprecedented change, disruption and division is called:

The Conservative and unionist party.

You couldn’t make this shit up.

Absolutely. I have been saying for years. There is no conservative party anymore.

@akerman

Once we leave with no deal the voters in the north especially will be very hard hit. They’ll find out then exactly how much they matter to government.

I agree, but the blame lies with successive Tory and New Labour governments who left regions of the country to rot in the name of centralisation, 'city hubs' and a London-centric approach, leaving areas starved of investment and a brain drain.

Brexit was the result.

Leavers don’t seem to give the slightest of fucks about how hard this will hit people.
Worse.
I've never met a Leave voter who gives a single shit about the peace in NI, not one. They really could not care less. Fair enough, before the referendum it was hardly mentioned (thanks to Nigel Farage and co successfully shuting down all mention of it) after 2016, they do know though, that knowledge didn't move anyone. The GFA is measured to have saved the lives of 2,000 people and brought (admittedly a fragile) peace to NI. Shame on every one who voted to jeopardise that. Not that you will care or feel any shame at all about it though.

Leavers don’t seem to give the slightest of fucks about how hard this will hit people.

Funny as well how the prominent voices over 'herd immunity' and anti-masks etc always tend to be the biggest voices for Brexit.

There's a very right-wing selfishness element to Brexit and they hoodwinked the majority by making it all about immigration and disinformation.

I've never met a Leave voter who gives a single shit about the peace in NI, not one. They really could not care less.

As someone who grew up in the midst of the troubles and who has seen at first hand the extraordinary achievements of the GFA, I cannot put into words how sad it makes me that people would rip it up, without a second thought, for such an ill thought out objective.

I find it devastating.

How is manufacturing going to come back to the UK? Who would invest here?

@BoredofBoris

You make some interesting points, however, how is any of what you say going to change because the UK leaves the EU? we aren't in the eurozone, are not a southern european state, points of eu law can be challenged up to the ECJ (where they do understand it)

Building m/w's in eastern europe means JCB can sell them the diggers, the roads then transport uk goods to new markets... economies grow, less eu workers come here, more return home, if thats what folk want?
This will not be the case with workers from Asia, the uk doesn't have the means to police any work visa scheme and now not the money to introduce an ID card system.

We are walking away from our biggest trading partner, any FTA will not cover financial services and, most importantly, the u50's, almost as a bloc, wish to remain in the EU, exact opposite in the over 65s, we have sown the seeds of division for decades to come.

Leavers don’t seem to give the slightest of fucks about how hard this will hit people.
This attitude is why Brexit happened. Large sections of the community believing that liberal Londoners and media types dismiss their worries as mad, bad or sad. Do you ever stop to think that maybe no Leavers are coming to your thread because you make it abundantly clear your mind is firmly closed to their opinions? You have decided they are all racist thick gammon and won't even entertain the idea that they might have valid reasons for voting leave. A lot of them were giving a "fuck you" to people like you. Open your mind and maybe the country can come together instead of feeling they have to do something like Brexit to shock the elites.

That's a really good question @Theworldisfullofgs given there are relatively few UK owned companies nowadays.

We'll be reliant on the government handing out sweeteners to large corporations or smaller UK companies stepping up.

Also, having seen the hurt and anxiety visited upon my EU colleagues, friends and family I could never in a lifetime vote Leave if there were another referendum. The vitriol and racism that has been unleashed is a stain on Britain. Our NHS and universities will never be the same.

@StrippedFridge

Leavers don’t seem to give the slightest of fucks about how hard this will hit people. This attitude is why Brexit happened. Large sections of the community believing that liberal Londoners and media types dismiss their worries as mad, bad or sad. Do you ever stop to think that maybe no Leavers are coming to your thread because you make it abundantly clear your mind is firmly closed to their opinions? You have decided they are all racist thick gammon and won't even entertain the idea that they might have valid reasons for voting leave. A lot of them were giving a "fuck you" to people like you. Open your mind and maybe the country can come together instead of feeling they have to do something like Brexit to shock the elites.

^This. Brexit threads on here are just a hatefest.

How do you tell people who voted in protest at being treated like they were stupid, that the thing they voted for was stupid?

strippedfridge I do think it’s unhelpful to lump all leavers together. And actually Iknow Leavers I really like. My adored father is a leaver at heart, but voted remain for my brother and me, as he thinks we are the future rather than him. But it it true that Remainers have been asking leavers for years for the positives of Brexit and there is very little in response. Of course there’s anger. It’s not a matter of a closed mind - the answers and the positives have simply not been articulated and there’s precious little sign of them on the horizon.

This. Brexit threads on here are just a hatefest

Because there’s nothing to actually love about Brexit is there?

Tell me what you love about it, other than the fact it has happened.

On the one hand you’re saying the vote was a “fuck you” but on the other hand we should all come together now

@StrippedFridge

Leavers don’t seem to give the slightest of fucks about how hard this will hit people. This attitude is why Brexit happened. Large sections of the community believing that liberal Londoners and media types dismiss their worries as mad, bad or sad. Do you ever stop to think that maybe no Leavers are coming to your thread because you make it abundantly clear your mind is firmly closed to their opinions? You have decided they are all racist thick gammon and won't even entertain the idea that they might have valid reasons for voting leave. A lot of them were giving a "fuck you" to people like you. Open your mind and maybe the country can come together instead of feeling they have to do something like Brexit to shock the elites.

This is such a good post. It's the same reason Trump got in first time and Biden didn't win in a total landslide this time around and hasn't taken the senate.

The ones who believe themselves to be on The Right Side have elevated themselves above those who disagree with them and have actually dehumanised them. Why would anyone engage with that?

The ones who believe themselves to be on The Right Side have elevated themselves above those who disagree with them and have actually dehumanised them. Why would anyone engage with that?
Exactly

@StrippedFridge

Leavers don’t seem to give the slightest of fucks about how hard this will hit people. This attitude is why Brexit happened. Large sections of the community believing that liberal Londoners and media types dismiss their worries as mad, bad or sad. Do you ever stop to think that maybe no Leavers are coming to your thread because you make it abundantly clear your mind is firmly closed to their opinions? You have decided they are all racist thick gammon and won't even entertain the idea that they might have valid reasons for voting leave. A lot of them were giving a "fuck you" to people like you. Open your mind and maybe the country can come together instead of feeling they have to do something like Brexit to shock the elites.

It isn't a hatefest. Obviously there is anger because of the suffering it has caused and will continue to cause. But posters have genuinely been asking for Leavers to tell us what the positives will be because we struggle to see any at all. How can we "come together" if they cannot even justify why they have done this to us? The few reasons that have been provided on this thread have been factually wrong and don't stand up to the slightest scrutiny. Personally I'd be delighted if anybody could provide some real hope about how Brexit will make things better for the UK.

The ones who believe themselves to be on The Right Side have elevated themselves above those who disagree with them and have actually dehumanised them. Why would anyone engage with that?

Wow! Talk about lumping everyone in together when you're roundly condemning others for doing the same.

Would it have been too much to expect some generosity of spirit from people who actually won and got what they wanted by taking so much away from those who were desperate to remain. The vilifying of remainers is the last straw, really, especially at a time when it's becoming crystal clear how shit this is going to be.

Many brexiteers can't give benefits so they pretend they know loads of benefits but don't want to tell the nasty remainers them. Its secret. It makes me laugh when they try to do that.
Kudos to the two brexiteers who did try - unfortunately what they said is not true/based on magical fairy dust:
Brexit is not going to lead to a boom in British manufacturing. We need to import raw materials/we are losing foreign investment/we need markets to sell in.
Brexit is absolutely not a massive-money saving exercise. It was never a simple case of money in and money out but paying for the benefits of access to the single market - without it, even brexiteers agree the economy is screwed.
This doesn't mean that brexiteers are thick but that they are ill-informed - for whatever reason have chosen to not take on or engage with the information that has been out there available to everyone over the last few years.

As ever, agree 100% with polkadot.

Open your mind and maybe the country can come together

What does this mean? Can you explain?

Brexit threads on here are just a hatefest

Well you cannot blame people. We have the break-up of the union to thank, the eradication of the peace process in Ireland, a probable reignition now of Argentinian claims over the Falklands and for what? In 25 years time we will be back inside whatever the EU looks like then, smaller, weaker and poorer. What's to love about that?

The reason why many remainers despise a certain core of Brexiteers is that they never really engaged their brains. They let Farage, the Mail and the Express do it for them. How fucking stupid was that?

I suppose if I was, say, on a housing waiting list in one of the relatively small number of places [e.g. Boston, Lincs] that's experienced a really huge influx of immigration from Eastern Europe I'd still probably be pro Brexit. Maybe if I'd had a fishing-related business that'd been badly hit by EU stuff back in the day or whatever, I suppose I'd probably still be bitter about that, too.

How we got from these relatively niche concerns, affecting a relatively small number of people, to 17-odd million Brexit votes, remains one of the more dismal political tales of modern times, it now pretty much goes without saying that the overwhelming majority of us are going to be made worse off by this, as if Covid wasn't going to make things bad enough on its own...

@Helmetbymidnight

Open your mind and maybe the country can come together

What does this mean? Can you explain?

I am a remainer. The brexit vote was a wake up call to me that I do not understand about half of the country as well as I thought I did. I started conversations with people who voted leave. I didn't demand that they justify why they have done this to us.

While I believe we are better off inside the EU I do not believe that people who think we are better off out are ill-informed, thick or racist.

These threads double down on echo chamber mentality. The few leavers coming on to debate were told they were wrong and a bit stupid and selfish horrible people. They left. Then the thread goes on some more about how all those people who don't want to engage with you must be doing so because they are awful awful awful people. Unlike you who are clever and good. Read back the thread imagining you are a leaver who considered deeply and then decided we are better off out of the EU.

Look at what is happening in America and has happened in other countries in the past. When you decide that opposite opinions are due to bad character and won't listen with an open mind to the other side that's when countries divide. It stops us coming to sensible decisions through open debate. We polarise and the extremes gain more power. Let's not go there.

Each of us individually can stop that happening by treating other people's opinions with respect, assuming good intent on their part and listening, properly listening, to each other.

That's what I meant.