Doing this to a child is wrong

[fuckxmas]

BBC report : His said his 14-year-old daughter had not left her bedroom for four days, with meals being left outside her door, until the family learned the result was void on Thursday

This is so wrong to do to a child

Anyway, I really do have to go out. Will come back later and hope you lot have screwed your heads on a bit better.

For someone whose views are so massively in the minority on this thread and who has demonstrated such a consistent inability to justify them, that demonstrates a fascinating degree of arrogance.

Cygne

Alright, then, I won’t come back. Obviously you are all right, and no such things as individual rights exist.

Liberty is not an American concept. Heard of the English Civil War? The French Revolution? No?

Ah that French Revolution.
Proof that liberty is a British thing.

LOL @ Liberty is not an American concept.
Statue of ...?
'Life, ..., and the pursuit of happiness'.
'...... University'

Food for thought:
"For strong conservatives, American identity is about individualism and freedom."

When asked what it means to be an American, every person I interviewed invoked some combination of freedom and individualism. As one young, self-described moderate told me, “the left has moved away from the idea of individual sovereignty and individual liberty to a more group dynamic, which is kind of anathema to the American cause.”

That emphasis on the individual showed up in the survey data as well. When asked to pick between the two in an online survey delivered at the 2020 conference, 18 out of 23 respondents (78 percent) chose individual liberty over collective rights, while only five preferred collective rights. In this same survey, respondents were asked to rank-order the conservative movement’s three most important values; they chose capitalism (58 percent), individual freedom (52 percent) and small government (45 percent) as most important.
www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/12/2020-conservatives-believe-theyre-battling-save-americas-soul-by-supporting-trump/

mathanxiety

You are implying that liberty is an exclusively American concept, and displaying your total ignorance of the philosophical traditions of the Enlightenment, their European (including British) roots, and their importance to contemporary and modern democracy, including Human Rights law. Your arguments wouldn’t be out of place in North Korea.

Luckily, I know absolutely nobody who confines kids to their rooms for days or weeks in real life. If I did, I’d report them.

Have a nice day, all. I’m busy now.

Obviously you are all right, and no such things as individual rights exist.

We are also correct to place this discussion firmly in the context of covid, which you seem unable or unwilling to do.

@flaviaritt
You are implying that liberty is an exclusively American concept, and displaying your total ignorance of the philosophical traditions of the Enlightenment, their European (including British) roots, and their importance to contemporary and modern democracy, including Human Rights law. Your arguments wouldn’t be out of place in North Korea

I have stated clearly that that word liberty is a major theme in MAGA territory.
Liberty is a weird word in a British context. It's very much a clarion call of the American loony right.
And there is that right wing American term again.
Do those sentences equal 'liberty is an exclusively American concept'?

Incidentally, that word 'sovereignty' that is included in the WAPO quote is another that seems to have traversed the pond and taken on a whole new lease on life.

I am still eagerly awaiting some indication from you that you understand that this alleged imprisonment took place in the context of an outbreak of a highly contagious virus. You seem determined to ignore that.

You also seem determined to ignore the responsibility of parents to prevent teenagers from making choices that they would bitterly regret. Is there any choice a parent should prevent a teenager from making, or should a parent just let a teenager learn from her mistakes regardless of the impact on others, and refuse to interfere with the teenager's 'liberty' on point of principle?

Luckily, I know absolutely nobody who confines kids to their rooms for days or weeks in real life. If I did, I’d report them

It's funny, because this is how the masks on younger kids thread went too. In the context of the pandemic, it would be interesting to see what would happen if flaviaritt rang the police to report a person in the street with a 5 year old in a mask, or to report a family who were following guidelines by having their 14 year old keep to their room whilst self isolating due to contact/symptoms or illness, to protect their vulnerable relative.

We are also correct to place this discussion firmly in the context of covid, which you seem unable or unwilling to do.

I am perfectly willing to do it. I have acknowledged that the virus has given rise to laws which - ordinarily - we would regard as unacceptable, laws which have impacted in profound (though temporary) ways on our freedoms.

Those laws have the legitimacy of democratic assent behind them.

There is no law that says it is required or acceptable for one person to imprison another person (effectively) for days to protect themselves, or even anyone else.

This is an abuse of power, coronavirus or not. Human rights legislation gives your teenagers the right to liberty, coronavirus or not. Not absolute liberty, because you also have a legal duty to protect them.

And I don’t see the relevance of Trump, MAGA, or any other mud-slinging nonsense, to that argument.

Incidentally, that word 'sovereignty' that is included in the WAPO quote is another that seems to have traversed the pond and taken on a whole new lease on life

It ‘seems’ this way to you because you are wholly ignorant of history. Arguments about sovereignty precede the existence of the United States, and in fact traversed the pond in the other direction.

It's funny, because this is how the masks on younger kids thread went too.

It’s not funny. It is consistent with my view that it is not okay to abuse kids to protect adults.

Christ alive, it's still going

Who do we think will claim the 1000th post? It's a head-scratcher, for sure.

Luckily, I know absolutely nobody who confines kids to their rooms for days or weeks in real life. If I did, I’d report them

I said last night that I wasn't posting again but my itchy fingers got the better of me.

I think the above statement is ironic from someone who has said that it is preferable to leave a newborn closed in a room for most of the day (apart from feeding and changing), to isolate from an older sibling who is ill rather than ask the older sibling to isolate away from the newborn. That's far more abusive than asking a teenager to stay in their room for a bit.

I really should learn not to engage.

I think the above statement is ironic from someone who has said that it is preferable to leave a newborn closed in a room for most of the day (apart from feeding and changing), to isolate from an older sibling who is ill rather than ask the older sibling to isolate away from the newborn. That's far more abusive than asking a teenager to stay in their room for a bit.

So children in ICU are being abused? No, they’re not. New babies don’t need freedom and it is far preferable to keep them confined. Because you wouldn’t put a teen in an incubator or a cot or a playpen either.

Who do we think will claim the 1000th post? It's a head-scratcher, for sure.

I may not be able to resist a challenge like this 😂😂

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

Who do we think will claim the 1000th post? It's a head-scratcher, for sure.

I think we should all just comment loads to end the misery of the circular arguments.

ILoveYou3000

More importantly, what are you going to say? Oh I know: “Why are you assuming they were coerced?”

Just to add an original twist to a bad argument.

@ILoveYou3000

Who do we think will claim the 1000th post? It's a head-scratcher, for sure.

I may not be able to resist a challenge like this 😂😂

@ILoveYou3000

OP, will you start a follow-on thread? I think there are a few issues we haven't quite managed to thrash out yet.

*More importantly, what are you going to say? Oh I know: “Why are you assuming they were coerced?”

Just to add an original twist to a bad argument.*

Yes because that's all I've said.

slashlover just over 100 posts to go. I'm meant to be getting a stew on, but I'm going to have to stick around a bit longer to see how it ends.

OP, will you start a follow-on thread? I think there are a few issues we haven't quite managed to thrash out yet.

Indeed. We haven’t even touched on forced vaccination and have barely scraped the surface of the masks argument. I’m up for all of these things.

For anyone arguing with flaviaritt. She has posted 30 TIMES in this topic in just over 4 hours, that's a post on average every 8 minutes.

Yes because that's all I've said.

There has been a certain thematic consistency.