The betrayal of a public sector pay freeze

[Ori3]

Yes, we're facing the biggest economic crisis since peacetime. Yes money has to be found. But as a first measure, why instantly freeze the pay of teachers, police, firefighters, council staff and civil servants; key-workers who have risked so much during the pandemic.

These are the people holed up in a room looking after 30+ kids per day, supporting vulnerable people in social care, helping businesses access the furlough scheme, supplying universal credit, dealing with household emergencies, and tackling an increase in demand for urgent care services.

And their reward for helping to keep the show going? The certainty of a pay freeze for the next however many years and a conciliatory pat-on-the-head as added bonus. It's a joke.

And the awful irony of it all is that these are the sectors that protect most vulnerable and disadvantaged in our society, alongside looking after the nation's kids. They're the ones gluing it all together. Shut the schools and you've got a crisis. Stop social care and you've got a crisis. Get rid of the police force = crisis. Oh and firefighters? Who needs them? Council workers? Well all they do is push pieces of paper around and refuse to answer calls?! Get rid of them too.

In the words of Fight Club's Chuck Palahniuk:

“Remember this. The people you're trying to step on, we're everyone you depend on. We're the people who do your laundry and cook your food and serve your dinner. We make your bed. We guard you while you're asleep. We drive the ambulances. We direct your call. We are cooks and taxi drivers and we know everything about you. We process your insurance claims and credit card charges. We control every part of your life.

We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't. And we're just learning this fact. So don't fuck with us.”

People buying products grows the economy because they can decide not to buy them and then the economy shrinks. Is that not how it works?

Yes - producing and paying for goods and services grows the economy. But that is true whether public or private. That was my point - that you could say the same thing about the private sector as about the public sector.

The difference is in the way the value added in the private sector shows up in the national accounts because the final products are sold. Whereas in the public sector they are not so they are just valued at the wages. But that is really just an accounting issue. For similar reason it is harder to measure productivity improvements in the public sector.

I knew that the public sector was part of GDP, but I thought most change to GDP was due to foreign trade. Have I got that wrong?

I believe that Investment is the most volatile part of GDP. So short term will cause the biggest fluctuations. In terms of long term growth, I imagine the elements grow at a similar rate over the long term. Consumption is the biggest part so probably accounts for the most growth.

Thanks for taking the time to answer Irregular. It has been very helpful!

My understanding is that the majority of public sector employees WILL get pay rises through incremental progression ie there is an increase in pay each year (around £500) if you stay in the same job until you reach the top of the pay scale for that job after around 7 years in post. The pay rise the government is axing is the cost of living annual rise which is on top of the incremental pay increase.

I have worked throughout lockdown, in oncology support (coordinating the MDTs that are so crucial to coordinating patient care). No ability to be furloughed, as I'm NHS, as not eligible for it as NHS. I'm a low paid single parent and to be honest I needed to be looking after my Primary 1 child primarily during lockdown, and later during covid contact isolation of him from school (likely first of many). As i am not 'front line' however I get a pay freeze as reward for homeschooling while working in the 'essential' NHS. Tory Government i despise you. It is not only the front line staff that hold up the NHS, and parents and especially single parents mental health is at crisis point with these demands, and no recognition of their above and beyond service. Childcare has been decimated. I am also horrified that Teachers especially are having their pay frozen. They are putting themselves in the path of Covid like no other.

Whilst I would like everyone to get pay rises I think the reality has been looming for some time, this can't be a surprise?

I'm private sector and was given a pay cut in month one of the pandemic. My organisation was quite forward thinking in this in planning to save ourselves. I've often worked double my working week this year for less money.

I have to be honest in saying that certain groups complaining about not getting a payrise is just going to piss people off when they've had pay cuts, redundancy and furlough to deal with. It's not ideal but then what is about this?

@Snog

My understanding is that the majority of public sector employees WILL get pay rises through incremental progression ie there is an increase in pay each year (around £500) if you stay in the same job until you reach the top of the pay scale for that job after around 7 years in post. The pay rise the government is axing is the cost of living annual rise which is on top of the incremental pay increase.

I work in the civil service and incremental increases were scrapped years ago, and I've worked in a number of different departments.

@Snog

My understanding is that the majority of public sector employees WILL get pay rises through incremental progression ie there is an increase in pay each year (around £500) if you stay in the same job until you reach the top of the pay scale for that job after around 7 years in post. The pay rise the government is axing is the cost of living annual rise which is on top of the incremental pay increase.

They recently compressed the NHS bands. So most folk are not getting any increase with a pay freeze.

@Snog the civil service blocked incremental progression years ago.

Sorry snog cross post there, sure you've got the message now

There is money for MP’s to get a payrise of around £3k a year though, he could bloody justify that rise!

@BashfulClam

There is money for MP’s to get a payrise of around £3k a year though, he could bloody justify that rise!

3K extra, almost lifechanging for someone at the lower end of the scale. Sadly I expect they just use it to finance a car upgrade, or help in their house... tragic waste

HS2 is still going ahead
As is the celebrition of brexit
And the annual round of MPs pay rises.
I can forgo a pay rise but would like to see the above boshed

@Snog

My understanding is that the majority of public sector employees WILL get pay rises through incremental progression ie there is an increase in pay each year (around £500) if you stay in the same job until you reach the top of the pay scale for that job after around 7 years in post. The pay rise the government is axing is the cost of living annual rise which is on top of the incremental pay increase.

Where did you find this out? I'm baffled by what's out there at the moment and have no idea what is happening with my pay.

Snog do you think the majority of public sector workers have been in post for less than 7 years?

The private sector supports the economy? What do you think public sector workers do with their wages? It all goes back into the economy! This whole thing is part of a long term Tory aim, started under Thatcher, to downsize the public sector. Any way they can weaken it they will, and this is more of the same, using the current crisis as an excuse. Like another poster here, I have worked in the private and public sectors - unlike what they seem to be saying, I took a massive pay cut to be public sector but felt it was the right thing to do. Have had minimal or no pay rises since then.

almost half staff are at the top of their scales. So there are no more increases for them at all.

@Coastercat

I have worked in both public and private sectors. When times are tough, private sector workers get no increase - not ‘no cost of living increase’ - no increase at all. For years. I’m public sector now and loving it. Yes I don’t get a bonus or private medical cover but the holidays are so much better, it’s much much harder to be made redundant, the pension is INCREDIBLE, pay rises happen most years. Some public sector workers just don’t understand how good they have it!

OMG I totally agree.

@Brahumbug

And I'm tired of the people.saying public service workers pay tax too - their incomes come from the tax in the first place, in many ways it's just an inefficient way of cycling money around inside the public system.

I'm tired of private companies who spend their time sucking resources from the public sector via very lucrative contracts. Vast amounts of the private sector wouldn't exist but for the public sector. Civil servants are paid far less than their equivalents in the private sector. My DH, a very experienced chartered surveyor, left for a private company and more than doubled his salary.

That's a totally fair point, but still nothing to do with the initial one, which is that people saying 'public sector workers pay tax too' totally ignore the source of public sector salaries.

@Hollowtree3 as far as I am aware there are at least 6 or 7 years of incremental progression for all NHS pay grades so it will only be those who have been in post for 6/7 years or more who will not get an incremental pay increase in 2021.
1.6M people work for the NHS.

Local government workers (800 thousand of them) also get incremental progression. So do the police and teachers.

Maybe civil servants (400 thousand of them) don't get this, but the majority of public sector employees will get an incremental pay rise even if the government is freezing the cost of living pay rise.

but the majority of public sector employees will get an incremental pay rise even if the government is freezing the cost of living pay rise.
No they will not, as the majority will not be fairly new to post.

Our head teacher told us parents we must never go away in term time, and they face the same costs we do.

I decided to look up teachers salaries and they were at the time of the credit crunch about 7 grand more than dh earned) under 20) and newborn born into the cc.

I was gobsmacked and dh pension was a pittance.I started work in public sector role and I actually had to ask several times re pension because I couldn't believe how much pension I was accruing compared to dh.

Yy to better holidays, more job security?!! How much is that worth?

I value and wish society paid nurses etc more money and we valued them more but other people also do jobs that keep the wheels turning but are not key workers... They should be valued non the less and I hate this.. Attitude, I think some long term public sector workers would be horrified to get into private sector.

Look at you all, debating over public Vs private sector pay, arguing whose more worthy and deserving.

Meanwhile the MP's will ( just as they did at the height of austerity) award themselves a payrise, waste millions on inadequate PPE & track/trace systems contracts that they dole out to their mates.

Throw the 'little people' a few scraps & watch them fight amongst themselves for it, just as this whole thread proves.

Public nor private is not the problem, our government is.

I’m in law and we have had a pay freeze since 2008.

@Snog that isn't unique to the public sector though, I've worked for two private sector employers and both had incremental salary progression (and cost of living increase actually). The only time I haven't had it is in the civil service. And despite my DH getting it in the public sector, his pay restructure means the annual rise is incredibly small, it's not what it used to be.

Plus those who are at the top of their scales won't progress, so it is a pay freeze for a large amount of people.