The betrayal of a public sector pay freeze

[Ori3]

Yes, we're facing the biggest economic crisis since peacetime. Yes money has to be found. But as a first measure, why instantly freeze the pay of teachers, police, firefighters, council staff and civil servants; key-workers who have risked so much during the pandemic.

These are the people holed up in a room looking after 30+ kids per day, supporting vulnerable people in social care, helping businesses access the furlough scheme, supplying universal credit, dealing with household emergencies, and tackling an increase in demand for urgent care services.

And their reward for helping to keep the show going? The certainty of a pay freeze for the next however many years and a conciliatory pat-on-the-head as added bonus. It's a joke.

And the awful irony of it all is that these are the sectors that protect most vulnerable and disadvantaged in our society, alongside looking after the nation's kids. They're the ones gluing it all together. Shut the schools and you've got a crisis. Stop social care and you've got a crisis. Get rid of the police force = crisis. Oh and firefighters? Who needs them? Council workers? Well all they do is push pieces of paper around and refuse to answer calls?! Get rid of them too.

In the words of Fight Club's Chuck Palahniuk:

“Remember this. The people you're trying to step on, we're everyone you depend on. We're the people who do your laundry and cook your food and serve your dinner. We make your bed. We guard you while you're asleep. We drive the ambulances. We direct your call. We are cooks and taxi drivers and we know everything about you. We process your insurance claims and credit card charges. We control every part of your life.

We are the middle children of history, raised by television to believe that someday we'll be millionaires and movie stars and rock stars, but we won't. And we're just learning this fact. So don't fuck with us.”

@TheKeatingFive your objections to my points actually make no sense, as it goes. If you won't stand up and challenge the current politics, you have no moral right to objct to pay rises for those making love, not war.

You mightn't have noticed much of a damn being given about the tragic losses happening to some public sector workers already, but that doesn't mean you can assume I haven't!!

I expect it's the dizzy circles you move in...

Some public sector workers have worked hard and put themselves at risk

But not all of them

And many people in private sector have lost their jobs completely, so public sector staff are fortunate to have secure employment and gold standard pension schemes

If you won't stand up and challenge the current politics, you have no moral right to objct to pay rises for those making love, not war.

I’m not quite sure what you want from me. I’d never vote for these shower of cunts, but unfortunately others do.

I’m not ‘objecting’ to public sector pay rises, in an ideal world, of course we’d reward particularly front line workers.

I just don’t understand where people think the money is coming from, when we shut down great swathes of the revenue producing economy and borrowed eye watering amounts of money to fund lockdowns.

I think that if the message was sent out that the government was taking the lead on this, by also cutting/freezing MP's pay, cutting perks and being much less generous on expenses, then this would have been much easier to swallow.

In financial terms, the saving would have been miniscule, but the difference in the message sent out would have been huge.

@baroqueandblue

Whoever voted YABU, I feel sick just being on the same planet as you. Fucking creeps and I don't care what your 'reasoning' or justification' is. YABVFU and if you don't know it, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

OP, the only unreasonable bit of your post is the quote. Too cheesy! But you're not wrong otherwise, and I'm not in any of the groups with pay freezes. Hugs to the helpers of society, you're worth more than your weight in gold!

I'm a lifelong Labour voter with a string of charity direct debits, decades of volunteering work, kids in a less than 'desirable' state school & I voted YABU. Calm yourself down. Essential workers exist in both the public & private sector, as do highly privileged & not at all privileged workers. Plenty of public sector workers (incl partially teachers) have gotten to sit at home, plenty of private sector workers haven't (often the lowest paid). Even in non-essential areas, plenty of restaurant & pub workers worked their arses off all summer & autumn in pretty exposed conditions on a minimum wage, only to be completely screwed now, because their sector is viewed as acceptable collateral damage. We all need to accept that the cost of this is going to be astronomical. It just is. And if you want longer, tougher restrictions for the next six months to keep you "safe", that too comes with an ever spiralling cost. It just does. A pay freeze really isn't the worst thing that can happen to anyone right now. Also its possible to be unhappy with a policy without resorting to totally over-heated rhetoric, it really is. Like it or not, our culture is saturated in outrage & people are just tuning out.

I’ve worked in the public and private sectors. The entry level point for the public service job I had is now £4.5K more than when I was there 6 years ago. Yes you can say that is below rates of inflation and costs on living and that sucks. But you know what? My private sector job salary has increased £1.9K over the last 5 years. Private sector aren’t necessarily getting all these pay rises. It covers a lot more than just those in financial services. In all honesty, I got screwed when my fixed term contract with the public sector ended and I took a private sector job on the same salary because that base pass with the public sector is higher than my current salary. That isn’t taking into account the pay points within that public sector salary band, which I don’t have in the private sector. My salary in the private sector would be significantly higher than my private sector salary. This also isn’t taking into account pension contributions or annual leave entitlement. I got a cost of living increase this year but only because our work agreed to it last year. I’m not 100% sure my employer can actually afford the cost of living increase and that will mean redundancies. I’d rather not have the tiny cost of living increase and there be no need for redundancies.

DH, also private sector, was working 13 hr days stuck in the study, getting furlough payments for their clients. He did those 13 hr days for 80% pay. His work made it clear they could work overtime and take a pay cut otherwise it was going to be firm wide redundancies. No pay rise there. Both of us have had less than a week of annual leave this year - total - because we’ve both been so busy at work. It’s not just the private sector that has kept the country getting through this. They’ve played a huge role, no question about that, but so has the private sector.

@Indecisivelurcher

I'm public sector, my husband is private. Similar fields. I have more holiday, better sick pay, a better pension, better job security. He gets paid £15k more than me to do an easier job that he's less well qualified for. Its swings and roundabouts. We all pay tax.

I think on balance I'm 'good' with not getting a pay rise now! However the backdrop is I've only had a 1% pay rise twice in the last 10yrs. Its the backdrop that's the issue.

If we as a country don't have the money then we don't have the money. However I would argue that they ought to stop wasting money on the car crashes that are Brexit, HS2 and trident, for starters. Oh and MPs pay rises and expenses!

Agree with this.

Wojld not want to demand a pay rise when others are suffering but have zero confidence that money saved will go anywhere useful.

I don't think anyone should be getting pay rises for a while (I'm public sector but in no way front line). However the government can't really do anything about private sector wages, but if businesses are in trouble I don't think they are going to be increasing wages any time soon either.
Tough times ahead for a lot of us.

I’m private sector. I haven’t had even a cost of living raise in eight years. I used to be public sector, in the days when they had pay rises. They weren't cost-of-living pay rises - my income would decline in real terms until I got a promotion.

@shropshire11

That’s all very well- but must go both ways. Historically, there is a trend for that sentiment to only count when finances are squeezed in the private sector. When the private sector is doing well and wages rising, it does not follow that public sector pay will also rise- and if it does, not often at the same rate. Many in the private sector were furloughed, while most in public sector had to work- this does account for some of the difference in pay between the sectors at the moment. Not the furloughed people choice, of course.

I think pitting public vs private is unhelpful, actually. We need both. Private sector is not always better or more efficient than public, public is not always more stable (despite what you might think).

Morale is pretty low at the moment, though I recognise that’s not solely an issue in the public sector. I work for the NHS, at the moment it’s running on the good will of it’s staff - e.g. to make up for short-staffing. Covid has exacerbated the situation, but it’s been like this for a long time. Conditions of service are deteriorating all the time. I would not advise my children to work for the NHS- I enjoy my work, but NHS is not a good employer in many of the ways that really matter. I think that’s true of many areas in the public sector.

Sooner or later that will come home to roost. It already is- in some areas the inability to recruit the staff we need is impacting in service provision. Many talented people are leaving to go elsewhere. This was true before COVID hit, but may stall during the pandemic for obvious reasons- but I think will pick up again.

Pay is only one part of it, but it does matter. Look at places who have successful, efficient public services. There is a common theme- they recruit the best they can and pay them accordingly- as good or better than the private sector for equivalent skills/training/seniority. They do expect results though, and poor performance has consequences. Obviously, more authoritarian countries get results by different means.

Two interesting things from Rishi Sunak's speech

1. he said people in the public sector on less than £24k would get a rise. That seems to me an admission that less than £24k isn't really enough to live on - ie there's no spare room to cope with inflation. Yet it's way more than minimum wage.

2. He referred to £24k as "median" in the reports I've seen. That suggests median wage has decreased.

@SomewhereEast agree with everything you've just said.

Don't want to get into this debate but just want to add that public sector employees pay tax too , a fact that sometimes is forgotten !!

@Daydreamsinglorioustechnicolor

I don't think anyone should be getting pay rises for a while (I'm public sector but in no way front line). However the government can't really do anything about private sector wages, but if businesses are in trouble I don't think they are going to be increasing wages any time soon either. Tough times ahead for a lot of us.

It's this race to the bottom mentality that drives everyones wages down.

Why shouldn't the private sector workers get a pay rise? If they can negotiate one good luck to them.

I'm not a public sector worker and never have been. I cannot recall the last pay rise I had. I've been furloughed since March, my overdraft is now equivalent to a months wages despite being as careful with spending as I could. My job is at risk of redundancy and if I could get another job in the specialised area I work in wages are around 20% less than they were 18 months ago.

I'd be happy with job security and no pay rise to be honest if I was in their shoes

@Wales34

Don't want to get into this debate but just want to add that public sector employees pay tax too , a fact that sometimes is forgotten !!

They do but it is the government taking it's own money back.

The private sector generates the wealth, the public sector offers a service but doesn't generate any new revenue.

Public sector tax isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

Do you understand the difference between where public sector and private sector wages come from? And therefore tax paid? So will you also discount any tax paid by companies who get much of their work from public sector service or projects? For example a large proportion of the tax paid by Capita, SERCO was originally public money, as is at the other end a large proportion of tax paid by employees of care homes.

Public sector workers have secure jobs and pensions during the worst economic crisis in our lifetimes. They are the lucky ones.

Many industries in the private sector have been completely decimated by the pandemic including non-food retail, leisure, events, hospitality, arts, travel, tourism and my own industry; aviation. I was furloughed for three months on the spring, now I’m furloughed again and my job is likely to be made redundant when the furlough scheme ends unless business improves radically by then. I’m not optimistic, and if that happens I have no idea where I would find my next job.

I would love a secure job in the public sector, and if I had one, I would be counting my blessings and I certainly would not be quibbling about pay rises.

I know I get out of my pram. We can't all be level-headed and rational about life or death, which it is for some people. All the examples given of high earning public sector workers are the exception, in my experience. Most are just getting by but doing essential work and it's poor of society not to look after them properly. It's up to the private sector workers to defend themselves against fat cats exploiting their labour, but it's the voter who traditionally gets a say in how things go for public sector workers (if they vote in high enough numbers 🙄). I see friends working their arses off often in risky conditions (and that's pre pandemic) with contract stitch ups, and I feel passionately that they deserve more and better.

Pardon me for still giving a shit

Yes money has to be found.

still ensure what you suggest.

Would you prefer no pay freeze BUT a massive tax increase? (which will probably happen anyway)

The government simply cannot dictate how the private sector pays their employees - apart from a bare minimum rate, that's all. They still decide on taxation and the next few years are going to hurt.

Both sectors.

Yes public sector workers pay tax, but it’s coming from money that was public funds to begin with.
This isn't necessarily true. My department for example is largely self-funding, and, as well as the pay freezes (at least 10 years out of the last 18 - that is no pay rise, cost of living or otherwise), there have been 2 rounds of redundancy when 'demand' for the service we provide dropped sharply for a time.

I agree with the sentiment that it's not a competition or race to the bottom, but it grinds my gears when people come out with all these ill-informed generalisations about the public sector.

Let's all focus our anger and frustration in the right direction, together, instead of against each other, eh?

@NoPainNoTartine

Yes money has to be found.

still ensure what you suggest.

Would you prefer no pay freeze BUT a massive tax increase? (which will probably happen anyway)

The government simply cannot dictate how the private sector pays their employees - apart from a bare minimum rate, that's all. They still decide on taxation and the next few years are going to hurt.

Both sectors.

Unless you are already rich.

@BuggerBognor

Your DH should know better than to generalise about GP’s. I’m a consultant too, but let’s not pretend that consultants are wonderful and hardworking but GP’s are crap. This attitude is very unhelpful.

In our area, anything not deemed urgent was not getting seen during the spring and a large part of the summer. GP’s were told to stop doing lots of things. Especially in March/April/May GP’s were told to only bring patients into the surgery if it was absolutely necessary to examine them (and some were seen in COVID hubs, which were staffed by GP’s, released from their practices on rotation). My own GP’s have been excellent. I am aware that some have been poor, but then I am aware of some hospital services which have been awful too.

Therevis sadly no money in caring ( having done care related roles for many years.)