to tell Matt Hancock what happens if you don't come into work or school because you have a sniffle?

[chomalungma]

He is surprised by people who go to work (pre pandemic) if they have a sniffle or are feeling a bit run down because they should be at home and not spread any illness. He would like to use the diagnostic capacity build up to test for other illnesses.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55061543

I know what happens at some work places if you are off everytime you have a sniffle. Your sickness records gets investigated.

Same with schools. Does he have any idea how schools frown upon children taking time off?

"Why in Britain do we think it's acceptable to soldier on and go into work if you have flu symptoms or a runny nose, thus making your colleagues ill?

"I think that's something that is going to have to change.

"If you have, in future, flu-like symptoms, you should get a test for it and find out what's wrong with you, and if you need to stay at home to protect others, then you should stay at home.

"We are peculiarly unusual and outliers in soldiering on and still going to work, and it kind of being the culture that 'as long as you can get out of bed you still should get into work'. That should change

In the NHS itself 3 episodes of sickness absence over a year triggers a review (even if each episode is just a day) so the culture of going in unless you physically can't is embedded. And that's for people in secure jobs with proper sick pay. Perhaps Hancock hasn't heard about the steep rise in zero hours contracts under the Tories

Not all illnesses can be passed on. If there is more leniency in the future, I can see someone with a cold being able to sit at home and it be absolutely fine but someone suffering from a migraine will have to soldier on. Migraines are evil.

I'd also like to ask him whether he knows what happens to all those many people on zero-hours contracts when they take time off sick.

@Thecazelets

In the NHS itself 3 episodes of sickness absence over a year triggers a review (even if each episode is just a day) so the culture of going in unless you physically can't is embedded. And that's for people in secure jobs with proper sick pay. Perhaps Hancock hasn't heard about the steep rise in zero hours contracts under the Tories

That could be a very good question for the Health Secretary.

I'm sure it would be impossible to go to work with flu. When I had it, I could hardly move.

There are also lots of nasty viruses that I'm sure it's not possible to test for. I've been told I've just got a virus lots of times.

@flaviaritt

This drives me insane. People go to work when they are ill (mostly) because a) they can’t afford to stay at home or b) they will get sacked if they stay at home.

And Tory governments have made it this way.

So back at you, Hancock!

This, many times this.

If I am absent for three days I will have a disciplinary. This includes being off with my children. This is the same at my company whether you work part time or full time. As a result I will go to work unless I can't get out of bed as funnily enough I am not in the very fortunate position of not needing to work. I need a sick note if I am likely to be off more than a day, self certifying for three days is not recognised by the company. Not sure if that breaks any employment laws but that is just what the policy is. You can still have a disciplinary related to absence if you have a sick note but that is left to the managers discretion.

What about all the Mumsnetters who drag themselves to work with their limbs hanging off? What will they do now? Mumsnetters have always been proud of going to work when sick.

I don’t get paid sick so he can feck off

The first three days are also unpaid.

He has more power to change things than Jane down the road working a 0 hours contract on minimum wage.

Ironically, he also has more in common with Jane's employers than Jane herself.

Also I can't help but wonder how would schools function in autumn and spring when 90% get hit with a cold or ten.

I presume he will change the nhs policy of getting a written warning for being off more than three times in a rolling year?

People wait 3/4/6 months for an appointment with me. No way can I have time off unless I physically can’t get there and besides I don’t get paid sick pay
So if the government want to fix that for me then that’d be great

Two things strike me - firstly, absence scoring systems such as the Bradford score will need to be scrapped, as will disciplinary procedures for all but the worst (genuinely taking the piss) cases.
Secondly, he may as well close schools now. The amount of teachers and students that would be off would be unworkable.

If he wants people to stay off when sick he needs to lobby for higher sick pay. I go into work when I have colds, I don't stay off unless I physically am too ill to work, I earn minimum wage and can't afford to take time off all the time.

The govt needs to reverse it's decision not to pay employers the SSP they have to pay their staff. Employers used to be able to reclaim SSP but that was stopped a few years ago, so employers now have to finance it themselves, hence why they discourage staff taking time off.

Perhaps SSP needs to be set at 80% of normal wage (like furlough) and be at least partly financed by the govt.

It would also be good to finally give some kind of SSP to the self employed.

Does Health Secretary Matt Hancock know the sickness policy for the NHS?
It is not generous and basically if you have already been ill twice in one year, the third time requires investigation (because obviously you are lying and not ill).
Not a very handy HR policy to have during normal times if your work involves looking after sick people, let alone in a pandemic.
He might have to review his own NHS's sickness policy if he wants NHS staff to get every sniffle investigated. Or maybe the NHS will be exempt and expect to soldier on (as per usual).

Hancock is absolutely correct, of course. People shouldn’t go to work if they are unwell.

The problem is that the delightful people in management and HR don’t see it like that, so ill people go to work and share all their lovely bugs with their colleagues.

I’m very very rarely ill and the only sick day I’ve had in over twelve years (civil service, different roles / departments) was due to an indescribably painful tooth abscess. I‘m far from a wimp but could barely lift my head off my desk before giving up and going home the day before. Then I had a back to work interview and my boss genuinely questioned my reason for being off pretending to be all confused about what to put down on her form for dental work. At that point I realised no medals are given.

@Didyousaynutella

I presume he will change the nhs policy of getting a written warning for being off more than three times in a rolling year?

X-post! Exactly - NHS sickness policy is very miserly considering the staff spent their time dealing with other sick people day in day out, catching most infectious illness that pass through the patients. That usually amounts to more than 2 a year in normal times...

In my (reputedly cushy) public sector job, I have an allowance of no more than 11 sick days before disciplinary action starts. They don't call it disciplinary action, but since it is a three stage process leading to dismissal, that's what it is. I'm actually lucky. Because I have significant disability my employer gives me more time - my colleagues have no more than 8 days in total or three occasions, whichever comes first. So I know what happens if people have sniffles. And why. They like keeping their income.

As for downloading a government app that tracks anything at all, in your dreams Hancock.

I didn’t see this so don’t know exactly what Matt Hancock said. Did he have any suggestions for example on how people should pay their rent/mortgage/bills if they’re off sick for 2 weeks with a cold and only get SSP? Or how people can feed their children for free if they’re on a zero hour contract and can’t even claim SSP? Granted they could apply for universal credit but what do they do for the six weeks that it takes for that to go through? Does Matt Hancock have any idea that some people are already struggling to make ends meet despite being in paid employment?

I understand the sentiment. Being off sick from work or school is very often viewed as a character flaw. I've been guilty of going to work when really I was too unwell with potentially contagious things, simply because I thought it would be frowned upon/doubted if I was absent.

They need to refine the message though. A runny nose isn't a sign that you're too unwell to be out and about, and going to get 'tested' for such things is nonsense.

He wouldn't be saying that if I was due to vaccinate his DC, went off sick with the sniffles, there was no-one at all to step in and the next appointment was several few weeks away.
Same for his wife's urgent smear, or his pre chemo bloods, or vaccinations needed for imminent travel.
Get real.

We are peculiarly unusual and outliers in soldiering on and still going to work, and it kind of being the culture that 'as long as you can get out of bed you still should get into work'. That should change

I'd like to see the data that drives this claim. I find it unlikely that we are outliers on the lower end globally. So many people have much less choice than Brits about taking time off. Most of the biggest countries in the world have no state provision for sick pay at all. We might be at the lower end of Europe, though I don't think that's a given and when I looked for data found contradictory claims.