to tell Matt Hancock what happens if you don't come into work or school because you have a sniffle?

[chomalungma]

He is surprised by people who go to work (pre pandemic) if they have a sniffle or are feeling a bit run down because they should be at home and not spread any illness. He would like to use the diagnostic capacity build up to test for other illnesses.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55061543

I know what happens at some work places if you are off everytime you have a sniffle. Your sickness records gets investigated.

Same with schools. Does he have any idea how schools frown upon children taking time off?

"Why in Britain do we think it's acceptable to soldier on and go into work if you have flu symptoms or a runny nose, thus making your colleagues ill?

"I think that's something that is going to have to change.

"If you have, in future, flu-like symptoms, you should get a test for it and find out what's wrong with you, and if you need to stay at home to protect others, then you should stay at home.

"We are peculiarly unusual and outliers in soldiering on and still going to work, and it kind of being the culture that 'as long as you can get out of bed you still should get into work'. That should change

I presume they will be scrapping the ridiculous pupil attendance requirements in schools now then?!

Special assemblies and certificates for those with 100% attendance?
End of term outings for those with 100% attendance to the local fun fair?

I will be pleased to see the back of all that and look forward to the announcement from Gavin Williamson.

I agree with him in a way.

But, what happens when I’m of work 5/6 times a year? Will I be disciplined etc? Will it be used against me for promotion etc.

Hes not really suprised

And hes right we shouldnt be going to work when ill. Hes also right somethings got to change. The culture of going to work unless your dieing needs to change and employers need to be more understanding of sickness. I dont think hes quite saying what you think

He’s clearly never heard of the Bradford factor then! Also that a lot of people would only get SSP. So Out of touch and no idea about the challenges faced by most of the population.

It won't change though, unless you're already in the very privileged position of being on the WfH group.

I dont think hes quite saying what you think

I know what he's saying.
I don't think he might be aware of what the culture is like with employers and schools.

Isn't that exactly what he's saying? That the culture of wanting or being expected to be in work, even when ill, needs to change?

The power to change it lies with the government. Look at how they will do anything to push disabled and severely ill people back into the workplace, rather than pay decent benefits.

I see his point - we have all worked in teams where bugs spread like wild fire and everyone is off their game. Purely from a productivity perspective from the business, better one person is off for 2 days vs 5 people being off their game in turn over a couple of weeks.

But businesses need to buy into it and take wellbeing seriously. Create a culture which supports this behaviour, flexes how people work (pre Covid I'd often wfh if I had a cold but I'm a senior manage so I could - extend that to everyone).

But nice as this sounds I struggle to see how this will work for many. From zero hours contracts to the culture of presenteeism that I see at the moment with universal wfh in my professional services business, I can't see how you can shift the dial on this.

Just to say my wfh example when I have a cold was an example only - appreciate many/most can't wfh!

Totally agree! To insultingly tell the ordinary person they are 'peculiar' for not staying home with a cold (or keeping their child at home) when we have had years and years of ourselves or colleagues get in trouble for sick days and told how school attendance is so important DC should come to school with coughs and colds and even nits! But yeah it's just us being 'peculiar'...

To be honest as a teacher I do a little cheer if I see one or two off in my larger classes as it means less kids/more manageable numbers... even more so now! (I've always thought the 100% attendance thing was a pile of shite and discriminated against those with health conditions... in a previous school I always boycotted assemblies where those certificates were given out). Don't get me wrong of course good attendance is important and yes I know how research shows attendance is linked to attainment (no shit Sherlock).

I bet I get slated now.

I don’t believe there is any GP surgery in the land that would bother testing anyone with flu-like symptoms for anything.

He best sort out ssp then. My last job was zero hours contract. I wasnt paid if I was too ill to work. Ssp is a joke compared to wages so just to pay the bills you have to.

So teachers, who (in normal years) get approximately 5000 colds per year from the children, should take time off each time? Can Mr Hancock undertake to inform SLTs that they should not institue disciplinary proceedings after three absences for any reason in a given period?

This drives me insane. People go to work when they are ill (mostly) because a) they can’t afford to stay at home or b) they will get sacked if they stay at home.

And Tory governments have made it this way.

So back at you, Hancock!

I couldn't believe what I was hearing when he was spouting off. I have always dragged myself into work with a cold, because all of my employers have demanded it. I totally agree with Handcock that's it's wrong! But is he going to tell all employers to let their employees stay home with a cold? And is he going to pay proper sick leave if we do? Obviously not.
Complete tool. Priveleged, blinkered tool.

@BecomeStronger - but he only talks about how peculiar it is for the individual to 'soldier on' into work and nothing about how an employer's expectations have to change. This is what makes him seem so out of touch.

My classroom is a giant petri dish. I have a cold most of the time. He is welcome to come and shadow me for a day to see how easy it is to stay healthy there... Oh wait, he's working from home or in a nice cushy office. 🙄

Flulike symptoms aren’t a sniffle

Could you imagine if the unions suggested this, for the wellbeing of the workforce? The Tories would sit there laughing and jeering.

This will be a lot easier for many people now their employers have realised that WFH is OK. I certainly won't drag myself in if I feel a bit under the weather any more.

Does he have any idea about how people are actually gett8ng laid off they are off sick?
Because the reality is that, even if companies can’t k ik you out for taking time off for a sniffle, if you end upon statuary sick pay, you might well not be bale to afford it anyway.

If you want people to stay at home when they are ill, you first need to start paying them when they are ill. Not give them a pittance.

I actually agree with him.
However sick days are monitored where I work, and subject to disciplinary action (2 written warnings and then dismissal)

[quote UndertheCedartree]@BecomeStronger - but he only talks about how peculiar it is for the individual to 'soldier on' into work and nothing about how an employer's expectations have to change. This is what makes him seem so out of touch.[/quote]
Yes he is somehow putting all the responsibility on people rather than on the structures responsible for the situation ( companies and government).
Distracting everyone from the real issue of course.
Smoke ans mirrors.