To complain to the class teacher?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

For the last few weeks DS has been complaining that in a certain lesson he has been seated next to a student who, quite frankly, is a pain in the arse. According to DS he’s always talking, messing around and drawing attention to himself, and the poor behaviour is preventing DS from concentrating on his own work. DS is a good student, he gets good marks, always does his work and I’ve never had a bad word from school about his conduct.

I’ve been telling DS that if he wants to be moved then he needs to tell the teacher. DS is a bit short on confidence so needs a lot of encouragement and reassurance in order to speak up for himself. Today he’s come home and told me he told the teacher that this kid was preventing him from being able to concentrate and he’d asked her if he could be moved. The teacher refused, her response was, ‘I’ve sat x there because I know you two (DS and another female student) are sensible.’

I am bloody annoyed about this. Well behaved students aren’t there to help teachers manage the behaviour of more challenging students, and why should my DS suffer because the teacher wants him to act as a buffer for someone elses disruptive behaviour? Should DS start playing up in lessons so he can get moved next to some less disruptive kids? Not only that, the teacher has refused to listen to DS’s POV and refused his request because it’s inconvenient for her to do so.

AIBU to complain to the teacher about this?

@feministicon Great idea. Few questions though... Where is "out", exactly? For how long are they "out"? What education is disruptive child receiving while they're "out"? And if you ever decide to let them back in, what difference do you imagine having been "out" will make to this child's long-term behaviour?

@flaviaritt

Who'd want to work in them?

Everyone should have to work in them. There should be a rota.

Done my time in the equivalent. Five years.

No fucking thank you. DP likes knowing that, barring a bus accident, I am going to make it home every evening in one piece.

@Barbie222 100%. At work years ago there was a guy with Autism no one would be paired with him was blatant discrimination did anyone care? No .

[quote PunchyAnts]@feministicon Great idea. Few questions though... Where is "out", exactly? For how long are they "out"? What education is disruptive child receiving while they're "out"? And if you ever decide to let them back in, what difference do you imagine having been "out" will make to this child's long-term behaviour?[/quote]
It varies from school to school but I can only speak for mine, they are sent out with their class work and are out for the duration of the lesson they disrupted. The room is quiet and calm and if further disruption is caused they go and see the head. The SEN children go to learning support.

MitziK

Well, they stay in mainstream, then, I suppose 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Feministicon and me sometimes. We get the children that other schools can't cope with and often we're just a stop until a place in a more suitable unit is available.
Apparently we're "better equipped " for those children.

YANBU, I was the one who always got out with the disruptive kids because I was horrendously shy quiet and well behaved. I was bullied horribly by the disruptive boys (it was always boys that I was put with) and it made my time at secondary school absolute hell, affected my gcse results, and I still have nightmares about school even though I’m in my late 20s

*Secondary school

ah yes, my Yr8 DS has the same problem in a number of classes. He got an award recently for being 'really mature and helpful to other students that are struggling' . . . .. which I'm proud of him for, I want him to be kind , however a lot of this has been imposed by the school. He would prefer to sit next to his well behaved friends and not be the teacher's little helper. Anyway, I was a bit cross because in a test recently he just couldn't concentrate because the boy next to him was messing around as usual and trying to copy from him, so DS asked the class teacher if just for the test he could move to the free desk in front which had no one sat at. The teacher said no, DS shouldn't disrupt his partner by moving!!!!! What? DS was trying to get away from the disruption. Anyway, in the test DS got a grade below where he has been performing to date - 100% because someone was shouting in his ear through the whole thing. It's really infuriating.

Of course, currently. But if the price of expanding the sector of specialist schools was that all PGCE students and teachers in mainstream applying for UPS had to do a short rotation at local specialist schools, I would think that was reasonable.

Yes but would teachers think it was reasonable? I very much doubt it. Would it put people off applying to be teachers? Or make them even more likely to leave the profession than they are already? Also those vulnerable, difficult kids you'd have lumped together in a horrendous sin bin school wouldn't get the continuity and stability they'd need from a succession of reluctant teachers on short stints, would they?

Disruptive children should be removed from the classroom. You are not 'writing a child off' by showing consequences for poor behaviour.

My DD was sat next to a disruptive boy in maths and when I mentioned it to the teacher at parents evening he said ‘No, not xxxx! He’s the top of the class’ annnnd??? Bored kids are often disruptive.

@Eastie77

Disruptive children should be removed from the classroom. You are not 'writing a child off' by showing consequences for poor behaviour.

Exactly, we’re definitely not writing them off in any way.

Do you really think that teachers who have already been in the job for years and done their fair share of teaching difficult classes and manning the remove unit are going to be happy to 'be on the rota' for the remove room now? Not a chance in hell. It would be like asking a surgeon to do a stint cleaning up in A and E.

Disruptive kid should be wherever disruptive kids go, not ruining schooling for others. sickening tbh.

What do you mean 'wherever disruptive kids go'? They go in the classroom with everyone else, because that's where they are supposed to go. Did you think there was a special place for all the disruptive kids? There isn't.

Disruptive kid should be wherever disruptive kids go

Which is where exactly?? God this thread makes me despair. Some people have absolutely no idea what schools are like now. I love my job, I went to uni for a long time to be able to do it and continually improve and develop my skills and pedagogical knowledge with every year I teach. Don't know why it's never occurred to me just send disruptive kids wherever disruptive kids go rather than balance their needs (not to mention legal right to an education) with those of everyone else in the class. Do I get it right all day every day? No, but I bloody well work my arse off to make sure I do the best I can, and that my pupils have the opportunity to do the best they can. ALL my pupils.

Go do your PGCE yourself and prove us all wrong if you think it's so easy.

Disruptive children should be removed from the classroom.

And put where?

@singsingbluesilver

Do you really think that teachers who have already been in the job for years and done their fair share of teaching difficult classes and manning the remove unit are going to be happy to 'be on the rota' for the remove room now? Not a chance in hell. It would be like asking a surgeon to do a stint cleaning up in A and E.

I run the unit alone at my school, there is no rota.

@lazylinguist

Disruptive kid should be wherever disruptive kids go, not ruining schooling for others. sickening tbh.

What do you mean 'wherever disruptive kids go'? They go in the classroom with everyone else, because that's where they are supposed to go. Did you think there was a special place for all the disruptive kids? There isn't.

In some schools there is!

@Feministicon hats off to you. It's not a role I could do in a month of Sundays. To do that you need training, patience and energy. I have none of those things any more. If I was told at this stage in my career to do that I would be out of the door.

@Eastie77

Disruptive children should be removed from the classroom. You are not 'writing a child off' by showing consequences for poor behaviour.

And put them where exactly? Do you think schools have magical rooms for all the chatty and disruptive pupils? Never mind the fact that it solves nothing in the long term because punitive sanctions have been shown to be largely ineffective, and there's the small matter of the fact that they are legally and morally entitled to an education too.

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

This is exactly why comprehensive schools do not work.

We should go back to having grammar schools and technical colleges.

You’re assuming the disruptive child isn’t bright? That’s a big assumption.

[quote singsingbluesilver]@Feministicon hats off to you. It's not a role I could do in a month of Sundays. To do that you need training, patience and energy. I have none of those things any more. If I was told at this stage in my career to do that I would be out of the door.[/quote]
It’s very hard there’s no denying and the covid restrictions and the knock on effects of lockdown 1 are making it the most challenging it’s been.

[quote Choccylips]@asifiwould If a teacher is not capable of handling a disruptive pupil and expects another pupil to handle that child for them they should be sacked. They are obviously not doing the job properly in the first place. Why should the best pupils have to have such a disruption to their education because you teachers can't handle them. That is what you get support workers in for or don't you want to admit that you can't handle this child, do you feel a failure so use pupils as support workers so the head doesn't think the worse of you. You need to question yourself not me. I know what I would do if it was my child being used and disrupted.[/quote]
Who the fuck are these support workers you're banging on about?!
Schools can't afford 1 TA per class let alone a support worker for every kid who needs one.

Have you ever done a referral for speech and language or for an educational psychologist to come in and assess for SEN?
Wake up you eejit!

@Eastie77

Disruptive children should be removed from the classroom. You are not 'writing a child off' by showing consequences for poor behaviour.

Have you ever seen a teacher fucked over by SLT? I have at my old school. She was very new to teaching, got given a class that was a really bad mix and difficult to handle (sent supplies crying and running away, gone through several teachers in a year ,numerous disruptions etc) and then her performance completely fucked because she was calling SLT to intervene too often. That was for behaviours like fighting,running out of class, chairs and things being thrown around etc. She ended up so ill she quit eventually. Another teacher for the kids...

A teacher's behaviour management or ability to send kids out of class is severely limited by poor behaviour management policies and ineffective SLT.