To complain to the class teacher?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

For the last few weeks DS has been complaining that in a certain lesson he has been seated next to a student who, quite frankly, is a pain in the arse. According to DS he’s always talking, messing around and drawing attention to himself, and the poor behaviour is preventing DS from concentrating on his own work. DS is a good student, he gets good marks, always does his work and I’ve never had a bad word from school about his conduct.

I’ve been telling DS that if he wants to be moved then he needs to tell the teacher. DS is a bit short on confidence so needs a lot of encouragement and reassurance in order to speak up for himself. Today he’s come home and told me he told the teacher that this kid was preventing him from being able to concentrate and he’d asked her if he could be moved. The teacher refused, her response was, ‘I’ve sat x there because I know you two (DS and another female student) are sensible.’

I am bloody annoyed about this. Well behaved students aren’t there to help teachers manage the behaviour of more challenging students, and why should my DS suffer because the teacher wants him to act as a buffer for someone elses disruptive behaviour? Should DS start playing up in lessons so he can get moved next to some less disruptive kids? Not only that, the teacher has refused to listen to DS’s POV and refused his request because it’s inconvenient for her to do so.

AIBU to complain to the teacher about this?

Your DS has been complaining for a few weeks but we're in Nov so schools have been back for months. What changed in the last few weeks?
You could speak to the teacher but be prepared that it may not be as your DS is describing. Also, in our school, they are trying to avoid changing seats because of Covid. I don't know if that policy is the same in your school.
When you do speak to the teacher perhaps refraining from calling other DCs 'little shits' . It doesn't reflect well on you.

I am sorry but yes, I would insist my son was moved, just because he is sensible and good does not mean he can be hindered with this child, no way. It simply wouldn't happen.

yes the disruptive child must sit somewhere, but not next to my son, maybe out in the corridor until they learn how to behave

I feel sorry for kids who have things like ADHD and find it impossible to focus in the lesson. I never realised other parents would actually want that child to be seated by them selves away from every one else. Sad

@flaviaritt

Where do you propose the disruptive child sits, then?

Next to another disruptive child or, even better, outside the room. It is not okay to compromise the education of well-behaved children to try to ‘model’ good behaviour to kids who can’t behave. It isn’t the fault of the well-behaved children and they shouldn’t be asked to pay the cost.

Put two disruptive students together and the teacher may be unable to teach at all. If they talk throughout the teacher talk, the quality of the teaching will be worse. Your child will be able to focus on their work but might not have a clue what to do.

I don't agree that disruptive children should go with quiet children. I also don't think children can be sorted into those two categories. My most disruptive child sits at the front, next to another one who loves to chat. It shouldn't work but it does, because their personalities are more complex than "disruptive."

Other chatty/attention seeking children are spread throughout the room. Some are sat next to quiet/studious types, where this works for both of the children.

I've got one child who has previously been mean to the child he sat next to. He's the one I want to keep away from anyone who is unlikely to speak up.

Classroom management is a difficult thing to get right. It's based on a huge number of factors.

@flaviaritt

Where do you propose the disruptive child sits, then?

Next to another disruptive child or, even better, outside the room. It is not okay to compromise the education of well-behaved children to try to ‘model’ good behaviour to kids who can’t behave. It isn’t the fault of the well-behaved children and they shouldn’t be asked to pay the cost.

Great idea, let's sit all the disruptive children together to make MAXIMUM disruption!

At my school we are not allowed to put children outside of class.

@notputtingthetreeupyet everything you've said I agree. My daughter has adhd and seeing this post on how some people would view my daughter as a naughty kid is heartbreaking.
Good luck to your boy, my daughter is also extremely bright ahead in maths and is brilliant at sports art and music, it's only English she struggles with really and reading. I'm wondering if possible dyslexia.

If you put disruptive children together then no one learns anything at all because all the teacher can do is manage their escalating behaviour.

@tigger001

I am sorry but yes, I would insist my son was moved, just because he is sensible and good does not mean he can be hindered with this child, no way. It simply wouldn't happen.

yes the disruptive child must sit somewhere, but not next to my son, maybe out in the corridor until they learn how to behave

"The disruptive child must sit somewhere, but not next to my son."

Whose son should they sit next to then?

It doesn’t sound like your son is one of the kids we’re talking about. Does he kick others under the table? Does he rock on his chair and bang the table behind him? Does he call out during silent work? Does he deliberately catch the eye of another disruptive kid? Does he make fart noises? Does he pass notes?

He does rock on his chair sometimes, and he probably does call out during silent work. The rest of the things you've listed, no.

Maybe 'sin bin' schools should be re-introduced.

It's not a completely terrible idea, in my view, with some caveats. It would need a LOT (HUGE amount) of funding to attract the right facilities and staff. Plus the government would finally need to accept that you can't fit square pegs in round holes and agree to bring back some vocational, USEFUL qualifications to schools for the kids who will NEVER understand Macbeth or quadratic equations and because of this they play up in class. You'd need to persuade people who say that system is elitist to actually understand where their thinking is going wrong. These kids know they don't measure up in our "one size fits all" system and so give up. Then leave school with a massive sense of failure and none of the staff have any fond memories of them.

If you give a "problem" pupil the right environment and stimulation for THEM, they tend to do much better. My school has changed beyond recognition since I started there. There used to be provision for the very low ability kids to go offsite once or twice a week and learn things like horticulture, or go to catering college or get involved in animal care. To acquire a SKILL which teachers can genuinely recognise and admire, and to get themsleves some bloody self-esteem back before our rotten education system has knocked it out of them. I remember some of our pupils proudly showing us what they'd made at their placement, absolutely beaming. It made us beam too. Showed a totally different side to those disruptive kids. It's soul-destroying to see low ability kids struggling to learn Macbeth when you know that they will barely understand what the questions mean once they get into that exam room.

Who'd want to work in them? Everyone should have to work in them. There should be a rota.

Ummm no thanks. I choose which schools I work at.

I am sorry but yes, I would insist my son was moved, just because he is sensible and good does not mean he can be hindered with this child, no way. It simply wouldn't happen. yes the disruptive child must sit somewhere, but not next to my son, maybe out in the corridor until they learn how to behave

You don't get to insist on anything. You're not in charge of school policy or the classroom, I'm afraid.

@pinkpetal2

I feel sorry for kids who have things like ADHD and find it impossible to focus in the lesson. I never realised other parents would actually want that child to be seated by them selves away from every one else. Sad

Not all ADHD children are the same.

I had several that most of the time had no issues,and when they did they "hid" away,they were quiet (if fidgety).

I also had children that had ADHD and were violent and disruptive to the point we had to remove the whole class for their safety. I had the scratches and bruises and bites to prove it. A lot of the time the ADHD wasn't the primary cause of the violence to begin with.

Yes children with SEND are treated appallingly by some schools and their needs ignored, aren't met or worse punished. Yes sometimes children with SEND do have disruptive or violent behaviours. We shouldn't assume though that all bad behaviour is displayed by children with SEND. It just adds even more to the stigma.

@missbunnyrabbit The child should be removed from the classroom if they consistently cannot behave and are disrupting others learning.

Or their parent made to come and sit with them for a weeks worth of lessons until they learn how to behave.

No one has the right to take away the opportunity of a willing persons education.

I am amused that the automatic assumption here is that poor behaviour must equate to low ability. Some of the most devious little shits I have ever had the misfortune to meet in the classroom were also some of the most intelligent. They know exactly what they are doing, which buttons to press, and how to load the bullets for other, less astute students to fire.

@pinkpetal2

I feel sorry for kids who have things like ADHD and find it impossible to focus in the lesson. I never realised other parents would actually want that child to be seated by them selves away from every one else. Sad

Sadly, we're just past ADHD awareness month and it seems like most people really haven't budged in their thinking at all. We should try and be more tolerant; if children are being hurt that's different, but there are people in the world who move a lot, have tics, make noise and talk a lot, often away from the subject. That's life and if you've been moving away from these people all your life, well, you're part of the problem aren't you.

All disruption isn't due to the ability to learn, it may be quite the opposite.

@notputtingthetreeupyet

He has an EHCP but with no funding attached and no 'hours' for a one-to-one TA. It's a shame so many people seem to think that a disruptive child is also not very bright, doesn't want to learn, has parents who don't care or don't support the school. Yes your child deserves an education but so does mine. He has to sit somewhere.

If he has an EHCP then all staff should have been made aware of that. We have had pupils with exactly the same issues as your son. Everyone was aware and understanding, including classmates. Staff were supportive and protective of such pupils when witnessing remarks from other kids in communal areas who did not know those children personally so didn't understand their issues and drew attention to the behaviour.

It's a shame if your son hasn't had that experience. Even though my school can be very challenging, many pupils will display nothing but empathy towards a classmate who is not able to control impulses in that way.

Do you think that THIS is the type of student who lacks confidence (as the OP describes her child) and would actively seek the teacher out to say they can't concentrate, and bring it up at home over a number of weeks, too? I doubt it.

Sorry? Was this aimed at me? You do quote a line from me that shows I don’t think this, so sorry if I am misunderstanding!

It is interesting to read replies mentioning classroom seating arrangements, my child has to sit in alphabetical order all the way through secondary school, I just don't think it works. When I was at primary school - in year 6 I had a teacher who made us sit in boy girl order, in silence with our desks all lining and facing the walls! I have to say I had my most productive school year! However, I'm sure that wouldn't be allowed now.

Why isn’t the disruptive boy being sent out?

Disruptive kid should be wherever disruptive kids go, not ruining schooling for others. sickening tbh.

I'm saddened to read how many are willing to write off disruptive pupils as lost causes. More of you than have openly admitted as much will be parents of children who disrupt learning, whether you admit it or not. I can only imagine your (justified) incredulity should you find that your son or daughter had been relegated to a solitary desk in the corridor as a result of their behaviour.

Certainly their education nor wellbeing is no more important than any others', but no child is ineducable.

As a teacher who knocks her pan in day in, day out to do my absolute best by every child in my classroom, I can assure you it is highly likely that your child's teacher does the same. It is a continual balancing act, all the time. We don't always get it right because we are human. I think the teacher's justification for her choice was lacking, but a quick conversation (note: conversation, not complaint) is all that is required!

Oh and btw , the most disruptive children in my current class have no SEN , ok home lives and one of them very high ability, particularly in things like maths.

They just think what THEY have to say is more important than anything else and they are better than anyone else.

The kids that do have SEN (and it's quite high number) just need extra support in understanding and staying on task. They're rarely disruptive and never on their own.

@randomer

Disruptive kid should be wherever disruptive kids go, not ruining schooling for others. sickening tbh.

They come to me 😁

Ummm no thanks. I choose which schools I work at

Of course, currently. But if the price of expanding the sector of specialist schools was that all PGCE students and teachers in mainstream applying for UPS had to do a short rotation at local specialist schools, I would think that was reasonable.