To complain to the class teacher?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

For the last few weeks DS has been complaining that in a certain lesson he has been seated next to a student who, quite frankly, is a pain in the arse. According to DS he’s always talking, messing around and drawing attention to himself, and the poor behaviour is preventing DS from concentrating on his own work. DS is a good student, he gets good marks, always does his work and I’ve never had a bad word from school about his conduct.

I’ve been telling DS that if he wants to be moved then he needs to tell the teacher. DS is a bit short on confidence so needs a lot of encouragement and reassurance in order to speak up for himself. Today he’s come home and told me he told the teacher that this kid was preventing him from being able to concentrate and he’d asked her if he could be moved. The teacher refused, her response was, ‘I’ve sat x there because I know you two (DS and another female student) are sensible.’

I am bloody annoyed about this. Well behaved students aren’t there to help teachers manage the behaviour of more challenging students, and why should my DS suffer because the teacher wants him to act as a buffer for someone elses disruptive behaviour? Should DS start playing up in lessons so he can get moved next to some less disruptive kids? Not only that, the teacher has refused to listen to DS’s POV and refused his request because it’s inconvenient for her to do so.

AIBU to complain to the teacher about this?

I was also a child who had my education persistently interrupted by being seated next to disruptive children.
I used to think that the best way to organise secondary schools (as primaries usually aren't large enough) would be streaming by attitude/effort - then you end up with mixed ability groups but with the same work ethic. The "top sets" (1/3) could just have one teacher who knows their stuff and get on with the work, minimal peacekeeping effort needed other than one adult actually being there and keeping themselves abreast of the curriculum to deliver it, as the children want to be there too.
The "middle sets" (1/3) would be as normal.
The "bottom sets" (1/3) with the disruptive pupils could have 50%+ of the budget put into them and have all the school's supply of support workers, counsellors, reading volunteers, break-out sessions, smaller class sizes etc that might help to actually address their underlying issues out of school or get some education that would stick despite their SEN (provision would need to be tailored to the specific children and how they behaved). That frees 66% of the children from any severe disruption and might allow more focus on the needs of the others/more suitable whole-class teaching styles to be used.

@Sirzy it’s setting them up to fail because they become reliant on the excuse, every time they misbehave at school they get taken out for a “calm down” and a hot chocolate. If they manage to have one lesson without telling the teacher to fuck off they get to do an hour of computer games. I’ve seen this happen several times.

The the kids leaves school and finds their boss just expects them to do as they are told as a matter of course and that “sorry judge; I punched him cos I had a rough childhood” doesn’t work...

Or the school and other agencies can work with them in order to tackle the deeper root of the behaviour and as such mean they are able to engage in education and not be set up to fail because they have just been labelled as a trouble maker

If one child disrupts a whole class, is it fair that the rest of the class have to be worried to come into the classroom or have their education disrupted?

Is that fair? I don't think on any level that it is. Or do the rest of the children have to go to the wall, have their needs not met and live in a classroom atmosphere of not knowing what is going to happen next?

If a child fails their exam because of the disruptive behaviour of others, will a note to that effect be written on their exam certificate? It won't will it. No one will care why they failed an exam.

It just seems so unfair and plain wrong that 30 children have to put with the antics of one.

It does seem best that that one child is removed for the good of the others.

Where to? Well, in the case where the parents refuse to help, home. If the parents are willing to help, then working outside the head's office.

The objective from my side would be to ensure the education of the majority.

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

This is exactly why comprehensive schools do not work.

We should go back to having grammar schools and technical colleges.

Stereotypical much?

Some of the brightest students I have taught were the most disruptive because they knew they were already smart and could get through without having to work as hard as others. They were the most disruptive in the class for this reason, constantly demanding attention through bad behaviour. Those quiet kids in the middle are the ones that then suffer.

Sorry but you haven't a clue.

@Choccylips

If a teacher cannot refer a child to receive support from a support worker and expect the best pupils to handle them for them, they actually need sacking! You are not just asking that pupil to do your job and be disrupted and lose precious education time but cannot do the job yourself. Is that enough of a reaction for you.

Referrals.

Lol. How many years have you got?

I think it is right to say some children disrupt for ‘reasons’. Of course there is always a reason. That doesn’t mean it is a reason that can be overcome in a classroom. It might be a deep, unconscious need for attention, or peer approval, or fear of authority. Those are significant social issues that a teacher has little or no chance of remedying. It is not fair on the children following instructions for their education to be compromised day in and day out.

Let's be realistic, in a private school with small classes, it is easy to cope with a difficult student (singular). In a state school class of 35, it is very difficult because there will be several students like this. I would challenge anyone who judges teachers for this to attempt it.

[quote nevergoingoutagain]@ILoveAllRainbowsx I can't see how grammar schools and technical colleges would help with poor behaviour? Poor behaviour happens at all levels of intelligence![/quote]
They’re thinking all those horrible, disruptive and thick children will be barred from entering the lovely grammar school. Then the chosen ones will be educated in peace away from the dross .

You may hesitate to "go over the teacher's head" but if you think she is not being backed up, it may be worth trying.
I once had a Mum very apologetic, complaining about another girl making her daughter's life a misery, unaware that I had already raised the matter of this pupil's behaviour more the once with "higher ups".
Rather than have an uncomfortable conversation with a belligerent mother, the head preferred to presume that my disputes with said child were "a personality clash". I positively encouraged the parent to go ahead, and he had to bite the bullet....

This is exactly why comprehensive schools do not work. We should go back to having grammar schools and technical colleges.

This again? Behaviour and academic ability are not the same thing.

lazylinguist So you are an experienced teacher who describes working with behaviourally challenged pupils as ‘below your pay grade’ and a ‘sin bin’? You should reflect on what that says.

Tell me where I said it was below my pay grade. You can't, because I didn't. It's not the reason I wouldn't teach in a sin bin school. I wouldn't do it because I'd hate it. I get paid peanuts, as it happens, because I am an experienced teacher who changed to a different setting and I work very part time atm.

Another thing I categorically didn't say was that working with behaviourally challenged children was below people's pay grade. I said that most teachers work with some behaviourally challenged chikdren all the time in their schools. And I said that my headteacher dh works with them every day and is good at it.

Also 'sin bin' school is an awful term. I was quoting whoever suggested 'sin bin schools' upthread, precisely because I disagree with the concept of shipping off any kids with behavioural issues to a 'sin bin'.

Please stop misinterpreting people.

What’s a sin bin school? Like a PRU?

What’s a sin bin school? Like a PRU?

I guess so. You'd have to ask whoever coined the term upthread. It wasn't clear exactly category of behaviour she envisaged would cause a child to be placed in one. But, going by many of the comments on this thread, possibly any child who disrupts lessons at all regularly. That would require a LOT of PRUs.

Just on the referrals point. I was chatting with the senco at DDs school a few weeks back.

Its been the case for a while you can't refer until parents have done a parenting course even in clear cut cases. Recently it's reached the point that schools can't get referrals to parenting courses accepted as the courses are so overwhelmed that they are prioritising on various criteria. They can't get a referral accepted in any way shape or form with peads without it.

Likewise, camhs absolutely won't entertain taking kids on with any form of diagnosis and just been the issues in the diagnosis.

We have spent hours battling peads for my DD. Its shocking.

lazylinguist

Your argument against my suggestion was to say that there is no other sector in which highly experienced and senior people are farmed out to do jobs “way below their pay grade”. You compared it to a surgeon cleaning up A&E. Whatever you now say you meant, I think your meaning was very clear.

Read the posts again - I don't think lazylinguist said that.

As a highly experienced teacher in a very challenging secondary school, I can confirm that this is one of the few weapons in my armoury. My seating plan is essential for classroom management. Pupils sit where I will have the most control.

Having said that, my school has a robust behaviour policy that enables me to swiftly remove disruptive pupils from the lesson, and if any student complained that they felt their learning was being compromised, I would move them.
My lengthy experience gives me the confidence to set very high standards and ensure that they are enforced.
I do not “blame” parents for the poor behaviour of their children, because some children are much more challenging than others, and many parents are at the end of their tether. However, I have no respect for those parents who defend their child’s poor behaviour and repeatedly question the methods and authority of teachers.
I have rarely met a pupil who gives an honest, unbiased report of their own behaviour; almost every child who is sent out of lessons believes they have been unfairly treated.
All children deserve to have a calm, positive environment in which to learn and it is the school’s responsibility to ensure that this is a reality. Unfortunately, there are many schools where classes contain numerous disruptive pupils, my own included. It is exhausting for the teacher to maintain discipline sufficiently to ensure that learning for all is optimised. Experienced teachers like myself have the confidence to do this, but for younger teachers it can be a relentless and mentally damaging task. Not all schools support their teaching staff in the face of parents in denial, so many younger teachers leave.
As a parent, you should absolutely request that your child is moved, but you should be questioning the school as to why a disruptive pupil is allowed to remain in a lesson.

Sadly, the answer is probably because there is no money to provide an alternative for the very high number of disruptive pupils within the school.

Read the posts again - I don't think lazylinguist said that.

Apologies if I have attributed it to the wrong poster.

I beg your pardon, that A&E comment was singsingbluesilver. But the pay grade comment still, to me, was clear.

OP this happened to one of mine. I could write loads of detail but the bottom line was the issue wasn't the teacher, it was the culture of the school due to the HT method & ethos and that's something you won't be able to change no matter how much you talk to the school.

comments like 'life lesson', use it as an opportunity to learn 'resilience' etc are a bullshit cop out as anyone with an unhappy DC is well aware. using able, quiet, well behaved DC as a tool to train others is a method, and in a school like that I'm afraid it IS your child's job to manage other children's behaviour. all the school has to do is cover the curriculum, beyond that if your DC is doing well they matter less and those DC learn that, too.

We moved schools, and we were forensic in our research to avoid that method. not all schools are like this and its an eye opener.

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

This is exactly why comprehensive schools do not work.

We should go back to having grammar schools and technical colleges.

What a crock of shite. There’s not a direct correlation between academic achievement and behaviour. I for one was a pain in the arse teenager with ADHD, but I also got straight A’s and a law degree from an RG uni. Where would you send me to school? 😂

The bullying and vile behaviour that goes on in out local Grammar school is something to behold. Kids terrorisied on their way home.

So much for some spurious link between intelligence and poor behaviour.

Personally I believe a small minority of children have a certain make up which contributes to anti social behaviour. Many more are over indulged at home, not eating properly/dehydrated/sleep deprived. Also formal education starting at aged 4 is a nonsense and the curriculum is a straight jacket for many. Its all about me isn't it? And the quiet kids are supposed to soak all this up.