To complain to the class teacher?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

For the last few weeks DS has been complaining that in a certain lesson he has been seated next to a student who, quite frankly, is a pain in the arse. According to DS he’s always talking, messing around and drawing attention to himself, and the poor behaviour is preventing DS from concentrating on his own work. DS is a good student, he gets good marks, always does his work and I’ve never had a bad word from school about his conduct.

I’ve been telling DS that if he wants to be moved then he needs to tell the teacher. DS is a bit short on confidence so needs a lot of encouragement and reassurance in order to speak up for himself. Today he’s come home and told me he told the teacher that this kid was preventing him from being able to concentrate and he’d asked her if he could be moved. The teacher refused, her response was, ‘I’ve sat x there because I know you two (DS and another female student) are sensible.’

I am bloody annoyed about this. Well behaved students aren’t there to help teachers manage the behaviour of more challenging students, and why should my DS suffer because the teacher wants him to act as a buffer for someone elses disruptive behaviour? Should DS start playing up in lessons so he can get moved next to some less disruptive kids? Not only that, the teacher has refused to listen to DS’s POV and refused his request because it’s inconvenient for her to do so.

AIBU to complain to the teacher about this?

It’s not victim blaming at all! There are definitely kids who love the excuse of being distracted! (Note that I didn’t say this was the OP’s child at all-just that there are some children like this who exist)

I know the group of children to which you're referring. The "middle" ones. The ones who will knuckle down if there are no distractions whatsoever and the teacher is adept at behaviour management, but at the slightest opportunity, even just a visitor to the classroom who's bringing a message, will start chatting, turning round, shoving their classmate, shouting out comments. Do you think that THIS is the type of student who lacks confidence (as the OP describes her child) and would actively seek the teacher out to say they can't concentrate, and bring it up at home over a number of weeks, too? I doubt it.

There is the other camp. The quiet, calm ones who lack confidence but who want to do everything asked of them because they just want to learn and complete all their work. Who get upset by the rowdier behaviour of both the middle confident distractible group as well as the properly naughty ones. It sounds to me like OP's child is in the quiet, calm camp.

Quite simply, most parents haven't got the faintest clue about what it is and isn't feasible to do in a classroom, what level of behaviour management can and can't be achieved, what policies govern what a teacher can do to control behaviour, what sanctions can be used and whether SLT will support the teacher and escalate things or not. Or what it's like to be in a room full of 30+ kids all day.

On MN, posters often say "Well that's a teacher's job. If you're not good enough or can't hack it, quit". There is already a teacher shortage. Quite frankly, if every teacher who ever has trouble with managing classroom behaviour quit, schools would close even without Covid.

Removing pupils for being disruptive in some circumstances is contrary to equalities legislation. How would you feel if that was your child who had a medical condition, leaning difficulty or past trauma which caused this behaviour? Would you still be happy for the child to be isolated perpetually?

@flaviaritt
Absolutely! I just wanted the OP to maybe understand the frustrations of good class teachers who have their hands tied and that it is further up that should be held accountable.

Wheresmykimchi
You call it "fear of the staff", I'd call it respect.

Next to another disruptive child or, even better, outside the room.

Disruptive kids sitting next to each other will distract the whole class. You can't sit multiple disruptive kids outside the classroom unsupervised.

Learning to not do things through fear of staff or parents is not the same as not doing it because it's not the right thing to do

Learning not to do things because the alternative deters you is part of life. I would love to park where I like, punch certain people, talk when listening to presentations etc. Sometimes you need to understand that this will lead to negative consequences.

In this case, the children who want to learn are being allowed to do so. That is a win, in my book.

These awful examples that teachers have given and which seem part of the norm. How on earth has it come to this?

Maybe 'sin bin' schools should be re-introduced.

You call it "fear of the staff

In my experience the kids who are genuinely fearful of getting in trouble are the well-behaved ones.

Disruptive kids sitting next to each other will distract the whole class

They are already distracting the whole class. But at least they are not right next to a shy, quiet kid who simply wants to get on with their work and might be scared to tell the disruptive kid to shut the fuck up.

Maybe 'sin bin' schools should be re-introduced.

Who'd want to work in them?

"We do have parents complaining about the seating plan or trying to control it at our school, and they are usually people who struggle socially themselves."

I don't struggle socially, what I do struggle with is a child hitting and kicking my child on a daily basis with a teacher turning a blind eye to it.

"Learning to not do things through fear of staff or parents is not the same as not doing it because it's not the right thing to do"

There's a core group of kids in schools who don't actually give a fuck that it's not the right thing to do. They just actively hate sitting in a classroom so much that they rebel at every thing they're asked to do. They "don't like being told what to do". Those kids will get to the end of Year 11 and will NEVER "learn to do the right thing." Sometimes they grow up a bit once they get a sharp shock on entering the adult world of work or being in college. With others you're not surprised to hear that they're in trouble with the police a couple of years later.....

@serin
You do realise some schools have panic buttons in offices where parental meetings are held and some teachers have been attacked by said parents???? Your suggestion wouldn't work in many schools, especially those where for the pupil being at school is safer than being at school.

My son is a disruptive child.

He has ADHD and ASD. He has a 'tic' which means he makes a silly noise, he calls out answers to questions because he forgets he should put his hand up first, he has a loud voice so if half the class are chatting he can be heard above everyone else, he's quite clumsy so often drops things. He's been punished for behaviours he can't control for most of his school life, to the point of self harming.

He's also always been 'ahead' in lots of areas academically, he's a really talented musician, he's kind, he doesn't swear, doesn't throw chairs around the classroom, he's not violent (only towards me.)

He has an EHCP but with no funding attached and no 'hours' for a one-to-one TA.

It's a shame so many people seem to think that a disruptive child is also not very bright, doesn't want to learn, has parents who don't care or don't support the school.

Yes your child deserves an education but so does mine. He has to sit somewhere.

@flaviaritt

Learning to not do things through fear of staff or parents is not the same as not doing it because it's not the right thing to do

Learning not to do things because the alternative deters you is part of life. I would love to park where I like, punch certain people, talk when listening to presentations etc. Sometimes you need to understand that this will lead to negative consequences.

In this case, the children who want to learn are being allowed to do so. That is a win, in my book.

Not always. Sometimes it works, just like a disruptive child and a well behaved child works(although that obviously happens more often).

Refusing to make any changes though, when it doesn't work it's not ok.

Who'd want to work in them?

Everyone should have to work in them. There should be a rota.

oops - home!!

Sometimes it works, just like a disruptive child and a well behaved child works(although that obviously happens more often)

Of course. If it works, it’s fine.

@HallieKnight

Everyone's all for Sen inclusion until it happens 🙄

This. Unpleasant disablist attitudes all round here.

because it appears his parents have definitely not taught him any discipline. He obviously needs assessing for support help or guidance but not from another pupil

You haven’t got an actual clue have you?
No wonder teachers are leaving if they’re faced with this shit.
‘Parents have Disciplined’ wow.
No clue.

Haven’t*

notputtingthetreeupyet

It doesn’t sound like your son is one of the kids we’re talking about. Does he kick others under the table? Does he rock on his chair and bang the table behind him? Does he call out during silent work? Does he deliberately catch the eye of another disruptive kid? Does he make fart noises? Does he pass notes?

‘Disruptive’ covers a lot of behaviour.

I get that disruptive kids have to sit somewhere

Are you sure you actually do though OP, because...

his job is not to assist in managing other student’s behaviour. He is there for his own good, not the good of the teacher

This rather suggests that you don't get it. Your DS isn't managing the other child's behaviour. The child's behaviour is being managed by the teacher by sitting them next to children who won't engage in their disruption, which is ultimately the best way of ensuring the whole class can get some work done. All you're essentially saying is you'd rather it wasn't your child they sat them next to, but that's just how it goes sometimes.

Presumably the fact you're posting about this issue now suggests your child has been fortunate not to be in this position before, so they can learn a valuable lesson in resilience from the experience.

@notputtingthetreeupyet
Your child is one of the pupils who should be protected in school and treasured. He is not the disruptive child I am talking about and quite possibly is the child who needs to be protected and nurtured.