To complain to the class teacher?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

For the last few weeks DS has been complaining that in a certain lesson he has been seated next to a student who, quite frankly, is a pain in the arse. According to DS he’s always talking, messing around and drawing attention to himself, and the poor behaviour is preventing DS from concentrating on his own work. DS is a good student, he gets good marks, always does his work and I’ve never had a bad word from school about his conduct.

I’ve been telling DS that if he wants to be moved then he needs to tell the teacher. DS is a bit short on confidence so needs a lot of encouragement and reassurance in order to speak up for himself. Today he’s come home and told me he told the teacher that this kid was preventing him from being able to concentrate and he’d asked her if he could be moved. The teacher refused, her response was, ‘I’ve sat x there because I know you two (DS and another female student) are sensible.’

I am bloody annoyed about this. Well behaved students aren’t there to help teachers manage the behaviour of more challenging students, and why should my DS suffer because the teacher wants him to act as a buffer for someone elses disruptive behaviour? Should DS start playing up in lessons so he can get moved next to some less disruptive kids? Not only that, the teacher has refused to listen to DS’s POV and refused his request because it’s inconvenient for her to do so.

AIBU to complain to the teacher about this?

@Choccylips

If there are no support workers to handle the disruptive pupil, the teacher certainly isn't handling him just shifting the responsibility onto another child then what is the answer because it appears his parents have definitely not taught him any discipline. He obviously needs assessing for support help or guidance but not from another pupil.

If all chatty kids were sent for assessing for support help or guidance, it would take millions of years to get through them all, there are that many of them You have made me chuckle this evening!

I also can't believe that some people are saying that kids who get distracted by these disrupters are an issue themselves. Victim blaming or what?

It’s not victim blaming at all! There are definitely kids who love the excuse of being distracted! (Note that I didn’t say this was the OP’s child at all-just that there are some children like this who exist)

I’m struggling to believe that so many parents are defending the fact that teachers use well behaved kids to buffer disruptive ones.

What would you do if you were the teacher? In a normal class in an average school, you're going to have a number of non-perfectly-behaved children. They all need to sit somewhere, ideally not next to each other. Your ds has spent part of the school year sitting next to a poorly-behaved child in one of his lessons. Presumably that means in his other classes he's sitting next to well-behaved kids, while other people in those classes will be sitting next to the less well-behaved ones. Moving this disruptive child will simply result in him sitting next to somebody else's well-behaved child instead of yours.

It's totally normal. Yes it's the teacher's job to manage the students' behaviour. But some students are simply not very manageable. Teachers aren't magic. And a classroom teacher can't just ban a child from their class or expel them. Detentions etc often have little effect. What would you have them do?

If you didn't turn up, letter sent home and detention doubled. It worked fairly well in my day. What has changed?

Which kids do you think dropped the litter in the first place? Where might they have developed that attitude towards litter-dropping, do you think? It starts at home. Do you think THOSE parents would back up a litter-picking detention.

Schools have rules that many parents just disagree with and so don't force their child to do the sanctions for them. It's astounding. I don't think many decent parents understand what some other parents are like.

@CurlyhairedAssassin

and I'm just support staff.

Please don’t think of yourself as just support staff.

I would be fucked without our wonderful support staff.

If you didn't turn up, letter sent home and detention doubled. It worked fairly well in my day. What has changed?

If they don't turn up to the single detention, why would they turn up to the double? Letter home is only any good if the parents support the school having given their child a detention, which they often don't. That's what's changed.

Your son should not have to sit next to a child who is disrupting or distracting him.

I would email the teacher and tell her just that and ask what could be done. If she deals with it, great. If not, then make an appointment to see her and just gradually move it up if each stage doesn't get a result.

It must be difficult for teachers if, as some posters infer, there is no sanction they can bring to bear or no-where else for the disruptive pupil to sit. But that is not your problem and it is certainly not your son's problem and after all, your responsibility is towards your son.

This thread is really driving home why I'm considering leaving the industry. It is exhausting, thankless work.

Op, i don't really agree with the teacher refusing to move your son after he went and spoke to her. I certainly would not have told him it was because he was sensible. I might have said we could look at a change next term.

Having said that, the entitlement and reactions are batshit. Most of you have no idea what it takes to run a classroom. She is the professional, not you. You would be well within your rights and have a respectful conversation with her where you explained your son is feeling anxious and ask her would she move him. He might have just muttered "why am I sitting beside X?"

Contacting a solicitor because he's sitting beside someone who talks, I've heard it all now.

First the technically-minded kids were put in secondary moderns, (in the hope they would be taught technical skills, but they didn't, because technical schools did not get created) and the academically-minded kids were put in grammar schools.

That wasn't egalitarian enough, so all the kids were put in comprehensives, and they were streamed, so the technically-minded kids were put in the bottom forms and the academically-minded kids were put in the top forms.

That wasn't egalitarian enough, so all the kids in comprehensives were put in randomly-selected forms, but the technically-minded kids were put on one side of the classroom and the academically-minded kids were put on another side.

But, I quote "I hate how the answer to this is always to segregate pupils. Seems out of sight out of mind is too easy an option for many"

So to level things out the brightest kid in the class has to sit next to the most disruptive kid in the class.

Then we wonder why in 1970 the PM was a graduate of Wirral Grammar School and the Leader of the Opposition was a graduate of Broadstairs Grammar School, but in 2020 (reversing a generation of social mobility) we have to draw our governing class from Eton. Because no one else in up to the mark!

You don't have to "complain" to her but it's perfectly reasonable to talk to her about the effect it's having on your child. She should manage the situation fairly and make sure it's not always your son that is sat next to the disruptive kid.

Try to also see it from the teacher's perspective and management of the class as a whole, of which your son is a part. Being the person to sometimes be next to the disruptive child is a lesson for playing a positive part in a society. Someone has to sit next to them and the teacher can't just sit all the disruptive kids together, that would be much worse for the class as a whole (including your son). So try to also have empathy with the teacher when you approach her.

People's expectations on this thread! The disruptive child has to sit somewhere! Some of the classrooms I've taught in were tiny with no room for extra desks (and even isolating the disruptive child is frowned upon by many - teachers just can't please everyone!) The teacher is NOT in the wrong to place the disruptive child next to a quiet child, but what she should have done was listened to the child and rotated the seating plan, then it's split more evenly between the quiet children.

Sometimes children have a document that the school is obliged to abide by. This document might state that the named pupil must sit next to or between good role models. I once had such a request for the pupil to sit between two good role models whilst also having nobody sitting next to him on one side.

It is unlikely that the teacher has thought that the disruptive pupil needs a good role model to sit next to and that the role model’s education matters less than the anyone else’s. It is more likely that the teacher is carefully balancing the needs of specific individuals with the needs of the class as a whole given the limited resources available and the additional constrictions in place at the moment. I would suggest that you contact the teacher, explain that you understand the situation and request that when the class seating plans are reworked your son is seated next to someone less distracting.

@lazylinguist

If you didn't turn up, letter sent home and detention doubled. It worked fairly well in my day. What has changed?

If they don't turn up to the single detention, why would they turn up to the double? Letter home is only any good if the parents support the school having given their child a detention, which they often don't. That's what's changed.

That , and going by the attitude on here parents writing and calling in to say my son won't be doing that because bla bla bla

@Isthisnothing

This thread is really driving home why I'm considering leaving the industry. It is exhausting, thankless work.

Op, i don't really agree with the teacher refusing to move your son after he went and spoke to her. I certainly would not have told him it was because he was sensible. I might have said we could look at a change next term.

Having said that, the entitlement and reactions are batshit. Most of you have no idea what it takes to run a classroom. She is the professional, not you. You would be well within your rights and have a respectful conversation with her where you explained your son is feeling anxious and ask her would she move him. He might have just muttered "why am I sitting beside X?"

Contacting a solicitor because he's sitting beside someone who talks, I've heard it all now.

Completely agree with you. The expectations and entitlements from some parents infuriate me. I'd love them to come and work in my classroom alongside me and see why things as easy or simple as they think.

Why should the disruptive child be rotated between quiet children? My child is quiet but disruptive children cause her distress.

*aren't as

@flaviaritt

Why should the disruptive child be rotated between quiet children? My child is quiet but disruptive children cause her distress.

Where do you propose the disruptive child sits, then?

The classroom in 2020 is very different from the classroom many parents remember from their own schooldays.

I have returned from a hard day myself. Due to Covid, we have staggered breaks and so I have to teach with my door open for ventilation. Was asking for a 3 foot tall bin full of food waste to be chucked into my room in front of my class of twelve year olds? Is it bad objecting to kids telling you to fuck off when you ask them to put their phones away? Is it unreasonable expecting them not to walk out of your class because you want them to stop talking over you and actually do some work? Thankfully I am not black or I would have to put up with racial abuse too.
This is educating kids in 2020 and I work in what is classed as a middle of the pack school - not the worst, not the best.
And to echo a previous poster, parents who defend their babies to the hilt and believe behaviours displayed at school (and often out with) are a school issue are to blame.
Believe it or not - teachers do not have autonomy in their classrooms; it's all a game of politics; and it's not an easy job and I'm sick of teacher bashing on here!

@Isthisnothing

I don't think the OP is going to seriously consult a solicitor-that would be crazily over the top.

On the other hand, your referring to the disruptive pupil as just 'someone who talks' is crazily under the top!

This pupil seems disruptive, not some one who whispers behind their hand every now and then.

Some disruptive children are dangers in the classroom-we've had a long list given by a teacher upthread of some of the things they get up to-they're not always mischievous things, they're dangerous things.

I don't know what the answer is-except to say we wouldn't be expected to put up with a disruptive workmate especially if their antics impacted on our bonus.

Dizzy1804 - you appear to be confusing ability and behaviour. They are not the same thing at all. Do you think all the kids suited to more vocational or technical subjects are the naughty ones? Or that academically bright kids are all well-behaved? Not so. Plus of course, the vast majority of kids are in the middle - neither angels nor nightmares, neither academically very bright nor struggling. And perfectly capable of distracting each other a lot of the time.

Where do you propose the disruptive child sits, then?

Next to another disruptive child or, even better, outside the room. It is not okay to compromise the education of well-behaved children to try to ‘model’ good behaviour to kids who can’t behave. It isn’t the fault of the well-behaved children and they shouldn’t be asked to pay the cost.

I like the policy at the school where my DH teaches. If they are disruptive, they are instantly taken out of the classroom and have to spend the rest of the day in exclusion.
If they misbehave again their parents are called (meaning they often have to leave work) to come and collect their child.
Total Zero tolerance.
There is very little disruptive behaviour now.

Was asking for a 3 foot tall bin full of food waste to be chucked into my room in front of my class of twelve year olds? Is it bad objecting to kids telling you to fuck off when you ask them to put their phones away? Is it unreasonable expecting them not to walk out of your class because you want them to stop talking over you and actually do some work?

All of this is disgusting. Your school is failing at a senior management level.

Serin

Like it.

@Serin

I like the policy at the school where my DH teaches. If they are disruptive, they are instantly taken out of the classroom and have to spend the rest of the day in exclusion. If they misbehave again their parents are called (meaning they often have to leave work) to come and collect their child. Total Zero tolerance. There is very little disruptive behaviour now.

Learning to not do things through fear of staff or parents is not the same as not doing it because it's not the right thing to do