To complain to the class teacher?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

For the last few weeks DS has been complaining that in a certain lesson he has been seated next to a student who, quite frankly, is a pain in the arse. According to DS he’s always talking, messing around and drawing attention to himself, and the poor behaviour is preventing DS from concentrating on his own work. DS is a good student, he gets good marks, always does his work and I’ve never had a bad word from school about his conduct.

I’ve been telling DS that if he wants to be moved then he needs to tell the teacher. DS is a bit short on confidence so needs a lot of encouragement and reassurance in order to speak up for himself. Today he’s come home and told me he told the teacher that this kid was preventing him from being able to concentrate and he’d asked her if he could be moved. The teacher refused, her response was, ‘I’ve sat x there because I know you two (DS and another female student) are sensible.’

I am bloody annoyed about this. Well behaved students aren’t there to help teachers manage the behaviour of more challenging students, and why should my DS suffer because the teacher wants him to act as a buffer for someone elses disruptive behaviour? Should DS start playing up in lessons so he can get moved next to some less disruptive kids? Not only that, the teacher has refused to listen to DS’s POV and refused his request because it’s inconvenient for her to do so.

AIBU to complain to the teacher about this?

@Feministicon

I’m referring to the students that are being extremely disruptive including by refusing to work, shouting, swearing etc. I don’t see how they could possibly be seen to be accessing anything.

I was responding to @HollyGoLoudly1 who said that they access more in her class than sat in a base with a random member of staff. Even if they access something in a period , it's something. Sadly, shouting and swearing if it can be ignored and redirected for a small amount of time can result in some good work. I've rarely seen isolating work full stop.

I think people underestimate what small achievements things like opening their jotter , writing something down and participating in half a task is for some of these children.

Having said that this is a separate topic as OPs original description was not these children.

(Disruptive children should be put where?)

In there home with their parents who seem to not be able to instill discipline

Don't be so ridiculous. Children have to attend school by law, unless the parents choose to home educare them. Were you not aware of this?

*So if your TA talks over you, what do you do?
If you're listening to a student and she starts talking to you?
If she deletes your emails?
Goes to the computer and opens Google while you're in the middle of a PowerPoint presentation?
Starts making jokes with the children or shouting across the classroom ?
Takes your pens while you're marking?
She's poking you because you're not answering?

You just get on with it and focus on your work? Keep ignoring her and working with her?*

Essentially yes. She doesn't delete my emails in fairness. She does other things which are equally frustrating. When she talks over me I suggest that she lets me finish the thing I'm saying and lets the children absorb that before she adds another instruction. When she refuses in front of the children to follow a perfectly reasonable instruction, I model assertiveness and conflict resolution in front of an audience of 30, and log it afterwards. When she is broadcasting the latest conspiracy theory her Qanon partner has picked up on the internet, I model how to have a rational discussion with a crackpot without being dragged down a rabbit hole of madness. Sometimes it works. Sometimes nothing works.

Eventually somebody else sections her and I get a few months off.

The alternative is to set in motion a chain of events that would lead to her being fired, which I don't want on my conscience.

Tbh I could probably get my union rep to make the school fire her. I could probably sue her. I could do all kinds of things but as well as some fairly significant weaknesses as outlined above, she also has great strengths and abilities, and in many respects she complements me well. Some people are really annoying. Doesn't mean they should be thrown away.

Could disruptive children-not those with SEN- stay at home and receive their lessons by zoom.

It's gone on in lock down, so it can be done.

of course, there will be logistical problems but surely not beyond the wit of the school to overcome.

The problem of who has to stay at home with the child is not for the school to overcome though. That's down to their parents who might, if they're inconvenienced in this way, make sure that they back the school when the child re-attends.

It's clear that those parent 'teachers' have no interest at all in the child with behaviour problems actually learning anything or having their behaviour issues improved. Only the passive intelligent child is worthy of their attention and empathy.

Yes , I'm sorry but as a parent my kid is my primary concern. My anxious and crying kid. My kid who kept missing play because she had to help x or x ruined her work so she had to restart. My kid who had things stolen or broken. My kid who is quiet and shy and hates drawing attention to herself. My kid who had something really nasty done to her(by a different child) but she just sat there and took it because it was during "listening " time. My kid who had nightmares because of what x talks about at school(killer clowns,pennywise,murder,kidnapping etc). My kid who asked what rape was.

She's my daughter. She's my responsibility and priority. I can relate to and empathise with the teacher , but my daughter is my priority.

Is she intelligent,or worthy,or whatever? I don't know and I don't give a shit. She could be dumb as a rock and I'd still have her back.

@LadyFelsham

Could disruptive children-not those with SEN- stay at home and receive their lessons by zoom.

It's gone on in lock down, so it can be done.

of course, there will be logistical problems but surely not beyond the wit of the school to overcome.

The problem of who has to stay at home with the child is not for the school to overcome though. That's down to their parents who might, if they're inconvenienced in this way, make sure that they back the school when the child re-attends.

Who exactly is doing the zoom lesson while the teacher is in the class,you know.. teaching?

As I say, I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of the school to sort out. Maybe the head could do it!

If all else fails, then the child could be set work to do at home.

I know you were but her comment was in response to one of mine hence my response to you 😊 Are you a teacher? I only ask because I’m not so I don’t know what goes on in a classroom and how a teacher would go about ignoring being sworn at and deal with persistent disruption whilst trying to deliver a lesson to a further 29 kids. I’m not referring to sen students in any of my posts as they don’t get sent to inclusion in my school, I’m not saying it doesn’t happen or minimising other peoples experience but I can only speak with regards to what I know. I don’t think kids should be sent out willy nilly but working with the students that get sent to me is actually very rewarding and I’ve been able to do things they identify the need for a timeout card to reduce the amount of times they get sent out and work with them to find out their triggers, are they doing it on purpose as they aren’t understanding the subject, are they getting distracted where they sit etc. I don’t see how a busy teacher can do all that. I do agree that it shouldn’t be punitive and no student should be constantly in there without it being delved into by the pastoral lead. I expect the room to be quiet and I’m respectful of the students and find I get that back. Didn’t mean to write an essay

@LadyFelsham

As I say, I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of the school to sort out. Maybe the head could do it!

If all else fails, then the child could be set work to do at home.

That is an illegal exclusion. So yes, it's "begone the wit of the school."

And it's right that it's illegal. A kid who enjoys being disruptive is unlikely to learn well at home.

But you are right @Wheresmykimchi, I don’t get the impression OP is referring to extreme disruption or if she was that certainly hasn’t be clarified.

Wow, this thread has taken on a life of its own. It’s amazing what some posters will infer when they think there’s a row to be had.

Right, answers to some questions and assumptions.

I do not know if the child in question has any SEND.

I do not know the ability level of the child. He could be a child prodigy or below expected levels, I have no idea.

The behaviour DS has been complaining about is, talking all the time, taking equipment, shouting out and talking across the room, throwing things, making inappropriate sexual comments, constantly making noise and demanding DS’s attention. Mostly stuff that would be considered low level disruption but which is wearing when you have to sit next to it all lesson.

DS has to sit next to this child in another class as well, and is going to ask to be moved.

I have sent the teacher an email. I am not intending to complain to the head, call my solicitor or hire a squad of mercenaries as some posters seem to think I should. I do not however think that ‘I’ve sat him there because you two are sensible’ is a satisfactory response from a teacher when a student is asking to be moved because they are having difficulties. DS is not a loud or confident boy, he goes into school, does his work and tries to stay under the radar. He is not a child who pesters teachers with complaints or requests, in fact he’d rather put up with things than speak up. I have tried to encourage him to speak up when he is unhappy and I’m rather pissed off that this teacher has dismissed him because it’s more convenient to make him continue to struggle, knowing that he’s not the kind of kid who’ll kick up.

Thank you to the sensible posters who haven’t run away with crazy hyperbole or taken the opportunity to grind the axes of their choice. AIBU is certainly very entertaining.

Oh, and there was a poster on the previous page who accused me of railing on about something on another thread. I think they are going to have to tell me what they are referring to because I have no idea. I’m pretty sure I’m not who they think I am.

@LadyFelsham

As I say, I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of the school to sort out. Maybe the head could do it!

If all else fails, then the child could be set work to do at home.

Here's the thing. It's illegal. No, schools can't just send kids home and keep them home willy nilly. As for lockdown, the government sent children home,not the schools.

Honestly sometimes I wish we had at least a quarter of the power some posters presume we have. Not to send children home though, but extra support staff would be nice.(and resources,and premises,and funding, and training or at least some fucking glues).

I wish Sen and acceptance was part of the curriculum because this is really not ok but at least then your kids would know better

I don't think it is illegal to suspend children, is it?

If it is, that needs addressing pdq!

They may be unlikely to learn at home, I'm sure you're right. But they're equally unllikely to learn at school with the added disadvantage that their behaviour means other children-like OP's son-will be unlikely to learn either.

It's not perfect, my solution but I suppose I'm thinking of the greater good of the rest of the class who shouldn't have to suffer because one child is beyond control and makes life a misery for other children.

You seem to be intent on offering no solution. What would you do with disruptive children-not those with SEN who insist on ruining school for many of their peers?

@op

What a measured and sensible response :)

I definitely understand the annoyance at your child's request being denied. Hopefully you'll get it sorted.

Meanwhile, we can all enjoy the mad responses too

throwing things, making inappropriate sexual comments, demanding DS’s attention.

I would not consider this low level disruption. To the class or your DS.

@Feministicon

I know you were but her comment was in response to one of mine hence my response to you 😊 Are you a teacher? I only ask because I’m not so I don’t know what goes on in a classroom and how a teacher would go about ignoring being sworn at and deal with persistent disruption whilst trying to deliver a lesson to a further 29 kids. I’m not referring to sen students in any of my posts as they don’t get sent to inclusion in my school, I’m not saying it doesn’t happen or minimising other peoples experience but I can only speak with regards to what I know. I don’t think kids should be sent out willy nilly but working with the students that get sent to me is actually very rewarding and I’ve been able to do things they identify the need for a timeout card to reduce the amount of times they get sent out and work with them to find out their triggers, are they doing it on purpose as they aren’t understanding the subject, are they getting distracted where they sit etc. I don’t see how a busy teacher can do all that. I do agree that it shouldn’t be punitive and no student should be constantly in there without it being delved into by the pastoral lead. I expect the room to be quiet and I’m respectful of the students and find I get that back. Didn’t mean to write an essay

Sorry I'm even more confused. You don't know what goes on in a classroom but you are respectful of the students and get that back?

I am yes.

And as suspected it's not just chatting and all DS has to do isn't just sit there.

From experience, it takes a lot for a quiet child to actually say something at hone or speak to a teacher. It's never been "just chatting".

@LadyFelsham

I don't think it is illegal to suspend children, is it?

If it is, that needs addressing pdq!

They may be unlikely to learn at home, I'm sure you're right. But they're equally unllikely to learn at school with the added disadvantage that their behaviour means other children-like OP's son-will be unlikely to learn either.

It's not perfect, my solution but I suppose I'm thinking of the greater good of the rest of the class who shouldn't have to suffer because one child is beyond control and makes life a misery for other children.

You seem to be intent on offering no solution. What would you do with disruptive children-not those with SEN who insist on ruining school for many of their peers?

Teach them how to behave. Discipline them. Motivate them. Involve the parents. Missed breaktimes and lunchtimes to complete work that was incomplete due to their behaviour. Show them how important it is that they succeed.

It's hard work. It's not foolproof. But it's better than excluding inappropriately.

@Whatisthisfuckery

Wow, this thread has taken on a life of its own. It’s amazing what some posters will infer when they think there’s a row to be had.

Right, answers to some questions and assumptions.

I do not know if the child in question has any SEND.

I do not know the ability level of the child. He could be a child prodigy or below expected levels, I have no idea.

The behaviour DS has been complaining about is, talking all the time, taking equipment, shouting out and talking across the room, throwing things, making inappropriate sexual comments, constantly making noise and demanding DS’s attention. Mostly stuff that would be considered low level disruption but which is wearing when you have to sit next to it all lesson.

DS has to sit next to this child in another class as well, and is going to ask to be moved.

I have sent the teacher an email. I am not intending to complain to the head, call my solicitor or hire a squad of mercenaries as some posters seem to think I should. I do not however think that ‘I’ve sat him there because you two are sensible’ is a satisfactory response from a teacher when a student is asking to be moved because they are having difficulties. DS is not a loud or confident boy, he goes into school, does his work and tries to stay under the radar. He is not a child who pesters teachers with complaints or requests, in fact he’d rather put up with things than speak up. I have tried to encourage him to speak up when he is unhappy and I’m rather pissed off that this teacher has dismissed him because it’s more convenient to make him continue to struggle, knowing that he’s not the kind of kid who’ll kick up.

Thank you to the sensible posters who haven’t run away with crazy hyperbole or taken the opportunity to grind the axes of their choice. AIBU is certainly very entertaining.

Oh, and there was a poster on the previous page who accused me of railing on about something on another thread. I think they are going to have to tell me what they are referring to because I have no idea. I’m pretty sure I’m not who they think I am.

OP you're referring to me but I wasn't referring to you. I was talking about @HallieKnight and their endless drivel about GAT - apologies for any confusion.

In fairness , if you'd have detailed this behaviour in your OP I think you would have go some different responses from those of us in the field.

@Wheresmykimchi. What are you talking about?

Bloody hell, I had a lot of students who managed to sit next to a noisy student and survived and it did work. Email Ofsted and Human Right Commission if you're that concerned.

Yes that’s clearly all I said @Wheresmykimchi 😁 Just quoting a tiny part of what I said and constantly pretending to be confused by what I’ve said presumably to make me feel inferior or stupid only reflects badly on you. Sorry to derail OP, I hope you get it sorted.

@LadyRenoir

Bloody hell, I had a lot of students who managed to sit next to a noisy student and survived and it did work. Email Ofsted and Human Right Commission if you're that concerned.

I wonder how your students felt they "managed".