To complain to the class teacher?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

For the last few weeks DS has been complaining that in a certain lesson he has been seated next to a student who, quite frankly, is a pain in the arse. According to DS he’s always talking, messing around and drawing attention to himself, and the poor behaviour is preventing DS from concentrating on his own work. DS is a good student, he gets good marks, always does his work and I’ve never had a bad word from school about his conduct.

I’ve been telling DS that if he wants to be moved then he needs to tell the teacher. DS is a bit short on confidence so needs a lot of encouragement and reassurance in order to speak up for himself. Today he’s come home and told me he told the teacher that this kid was preventing him from being able to concentrate and he’d asked her if he could be moved. The teacher refused, her response was, ‘I’ve sat x there because I know you two (DS and another female student) are sensible.’

I am bloody annoyed about this. Well behaved students aren’t there to help teachers manage the behaviour of more challenging students, and why should my DS suffer because the teacher wants him to act as a buffer for someone elses disruptive behaviour? Should DS start playing up in lessons so he can get moved next to some less disruptive kids? Not only that, the teacher has refused to listen to DS’s POV and refused his request because it’s inconvenient for her to do so.

AIBU to complain to the teacher about this?

@singsingbluesilver

To clarify. In my school remove is where children who are not behaving in class are sent for the remainder of the day. No, they are not taught in there - it is supposed to be a sanction and it is supposed to be a deterrent. The thinking is that a couple of hours in there will modify their behaviour. It works for most, but not all. Those who go in there multiple times are placed on other behaviour strategies. There is a team who work with them.

I do think that students with behaviour problems deserve to be taught, and believe me I am well aware that they are in exam classes!!

Teaching and supporting students with behavioural problems requires skill, patience, time and training. I do not have those skills. I can manage my classroom, I can manage low and moderate behaviour issues. I have been trained to do so, and I have many years of experience. I know that I could not work in a PRU and that is why I choose not to apply for jobs in that sector. I am full of admiration for colleagues who do.

Then I am sorry you are in the wrong job.

My son was one of those pupils with behavioural issues. We managed to overcome the issues due to team work- hard work from his fantastic caring teachers who weren’t willing to write him off, we worked together and now he is thriving because he wasn’t seen as someone else’s problem.

He was respected as a member of the school community and as such they worked to make sure he could acces education.

Please read my whole post. I am well able to deal with low and moderate behaviour issues. I have been called many things by students, on one memorable occasion been given a death threat, I have broken up fights. My school, students and the public really do have good value for money from me.

I cannot deal with severe behaviour issues - I have not been trained to do so. Thanks for the advice re develping my skill set - after 27 years I think I have got this.

@Sirzy I am glad your son got the support he needed to succeed. Please read through all of my previous posts - at no point have I written off students with behaviour issues or said I can't teach them. I do and I can. I appreciate that there are many, many reasons why children do no or cannot behave. I love teaching, I really do, and I work really hard with all of my students.

My comments about skill, patience, time were directly specifically at pps who suggested that all teachers should work on a rota in behaviour units. I could not do that job, for the reasons previously stated. I also challenged the suggestion putting experienced staff on a rota in the remove room. In my school the students there are not being taught. That is the system in my school - it is a temporary time out room. Despite a pp trying to put words in my mouth I am not refusing to teach students with behaviour issues.

Comparing a teacher covering such a room to a surgeon sweeping the floor doesn’t seem at all respectful of the position! Outrageous and silly comparison really.

You are though your happy for them to be sent to a room where by your own admission they don’t receive an education. How is that right?

Did I say I was happy for them to be sent out?

One of my friend's daughter is in this situation and while we could harp on about life lessons and learning to manage distractions it has an impact on the child who is the "sensible one". My friends daughter has been sat next to a little girl who is selectively mute and will only speak to herthe teacher uses her as some sort of translator. The little girl can be very disruptive too as every time she wants to say something she is distracting my friends daughter by poking her which is having an effect she is now very jumpy and irritated.
I have written a very strongly worded letter to the governors about appropriate help for the other child ie this should not be my friends daughter.
I would write to the governors and put your case forward if you don't get any joy via the teacher.

My friend was paid good money to teach children who had been excluded from school on a one-to-one basis.

Some of the stories she told me were quite eye-opening! These children were bribes to do one hour of English or maths in exchange for something like a trip out, baking, ordering something else that they wanted to do for the rest of the afternoon.

A lot of the time she said they would not engage despite her trying.

I’m not sure what sort of message that sends to the children and how that benefits them in the long term. They would not get this sort of specialist treatment in the workplace.

In what way is working with children with behavioural problems ‘below their pay grade’? Are you mad?

. No. I'm an experienced teacher (with deceng but not perfect behaviour management skills, like most teachers), married to a headteacher who deals with students with behavioural problems on a daily basis in his own school.

What he (as well as the other senior teachers in the school) doesn't do is get sent for a stint at a 'sin bin' school, taking him away from his responsibilities at his own school. He'd be very good at dealing with classes full of of kids so disruptive that they'd been removed from mainstream school, actually. Me... not so much. So I wouldn't do it. Not that this proposed system of yours will happen of course.

You seem intent on interpreting people's responses about your sin bin school plan as them saying that teachers shouldn't have to work with disruptive students. That's not what people are saying at all. Most of us regularly work with disruptive students. That doesn't mean we'd be happy to be temporarily removed from our schools to work in a sin bin school, or that we think that system would be good for students either.

...,,Meanwhile, the kids who behave themselves and just get on with things quietly get no treats or rewards. There is something Fundamentally wrong somewhere with this system, which sends out the wrong messages.

At least at our high school they (usually) do a rewards trip each summer and each Christmas all those children who have minimal behaviour points, and this at least goes some way to mitigating the above.

lazylinguist

So you are an experienced teacher who describes working with behaviourally challenged pupils as ‘below your pay grade’ and a ‘sin bin’? You should reflect on what that says.

YANBU. I'd definitely have a talk with the teacher. Disruptive students should be seated by themselves if possible, better for them and better for other students. Your son is there to learn as well, not babysit.

All teachers do this because it makes the class easier to manage and they don’t reLise the level of stress it causes to the quieter students.

It only changes when the PARENT kicks up a fuss, yabvvu telling your son to talk to the teacher about it.

In my experience as soon as the parent complains the disruptive child is moved (to sit next to a different’good’ child 😭)

To me, it seems the same as allowing one highly disruptive and anti social family to move onto an estate and spoil the lives of everyone else on it.

It may seem harsh to some-no idea why really-but it does seem crackers that these individuals are allowed to spoil life and the education for the majority.

Maybe it is about time that we changed attitude so that the greater good comes first and individuals who choose to-choose not those with SEN- are the ones that forfeit their rights.

If you choose to be out of step with the rules, choose to spoil things for the majority-then maybe the majority should stop worrying about your rights until you decide to stop tramping on the rights of others with gay abandon.

If you decide to stop choosing to ruin the lives of others, then your rights can be restored but, in the meantime, no-one's happiness, safety or education is put at risk.

I don't know how this would work in practical terms but once the principal has been decided, then the details can be worked out.

principle-I should say!

The best place for this to start is in the schools-so that it filters through as that generation grows up.

So, the child who chooses to disrupt, be a danger is excluded without anyone worrying about the length of that exclusion. He is given work to do at home and his one of his parents has to stay home with him if he needs supervision until they sign an enforceable paper saying he will be better behaved and if not, they understand he will be home again.

Shocking that other children-who may well be frightened or upset-have to sit next to these children-let alone be in the same class!

I also think the schools should be much more open to calling in the police for violent actions where teacher or another child is hurt.

Do people really believe that in most cases such behaviour is a choice and not a response to some sort of underlying cause?

Part of the problem is we have a system which is reactive not proactive.

The UK is struggling to keep teachers already, given the unmanageable and ridiculous demands of the job. To also expect standard classroom teachers to be experts in extreme behavioural management would probably cut the number of teachers prepared and able to do that job down to 1/4 of the number of teachers we have now.

The REAL problem of course, is a lack of funding. If schools were adequately funded, they would be able to employ behavioural support specialists. These people are mostly not teachers. But... No money for that.

All comes down to who you vote for I'm afraid. A capitalist government are invested in under funding state schools to ensure the upper and middle classes remain dominant, through the use of private education.

Case in point. I earn double my previous UK teachers salary (overseas) and work less than half the hours. My biggest class has 7 students.

@LadyFelsham

The best place for this to start is in the schools-so that it filters through as that generation grows up.

So, the child who chooses to disrupt, be a danger is excluded without anyone worrying about the length of that exclusion. He is given work to do at home and his one of his parents has to stay home with him if he needs supervision until they sign an enforceable paper saying he will be better behaved and if not, they understand he will be home again.

Shocking that other children-who may well be frightened or upset-have to sit next to these children-let alone be in the same class!

I also think the schools should be much more open to calling in the police for violent actions where teacher or another child is hurt.

Let's talk a bit about this choice.

Is a child that is a victim of domestic violence choosing to behave violently?
Is a child that is abused or neglected choosing to misbehave?
Is a child taken into foster care choosing to misbehave?
Is a child that at 7 is a young carer choosing to misbehave?

Or do the act out because their basic needs aren't met(safety,food,sleep etc), are unable to recognise and deal with their emotions,are so traumatised that their brain goes into fight or flight mode and so on?

I don't disagree with you but surely common sense must declare that not every disruptive child has a backstory.

Or am I wrong? Is there no such thing as a child who is naughty, rude and disruptive just because they can?

I don't know but, personally, I just can't believe that is the case. But even if you're right, does that mean that the OP's child should just have to suck it up?

What's your solution?

I think most will have some reason behind the behaviour, it may not always be obvious and their may not always be anything that can be done to change the reasoning but writing them off as naughty from childhood certainly isn’t going to help anyone long term

@ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble

My mother was a victim of domestic violence; I was hit as a child when my dad got angry. I was sexually assaulted by someone ten years older than me, and after my dad left we were on the breadline.

I never once got a detention and was always very well behaved at school.

So, yes, it is a choice and to suggest that people like me can’t behave properly is just, frankly, offensive. Excuses like this won’t work in the real world so why are we setting these kids up to fail?

How is looking at the root cause of the behaviour setting someone up to fail? Ignoring the cause is much more likely to set someone up to fail.

It’s fantastic that your tough upbringing didn’t have a negative impact on you behaviourally as a child but that doesn’t mean that it will be the same for every child.

The majority of the children I get sent don’t have a problematic back story in fact a lot of them are really over indulged if anything.