Disgusting

[StoneofDestiny]

AIBU to think it's disgusting that the pay of Nurses, Prison Officers, police, Teachers and other public service workers who have kept us safe despite the risk to themselves throughout this Covid year are the ones that get their pay frozen

The focus should be on safeguarding the lives of the elderly and vulnerable and not whether or not you get a pay rise.

Which I do everytime I'm at work but a payrise is nice to have specially when I am. Caring for covid residents and putting my health at risk.

@SentientAndCognisant

be grateful to have a job actually No, I won’t be grateful for being remunerated for the arduous work I do

Am I aware I have stable employment, yes v much so
Grateful, no

No-one should feel grateful simply for getting paid for their work. However you can still feel grateful for a stable job, and to be honest I think everyone who does have that right now should be grateful, it sounds incredibly indulgent and entitled not to recognise the privilege of that in the current circumstances. I'll repeat, it's not the same as being grateful for being paid.

I work in the public sector & yes I worked all the way through & not always from home either. I feel
fortunate that I have a job & a good pension. I work in education, we had a pay rise this year.

Public sector workers are paid more than private sector, the gap was narrowing but Covid will have an huge impact.

Of course lots of people work hard & deserve more pay but I don't think in the current climate it's particularly justifiable.

I don’t see your average worker in the private sector coming into close contact with hundreds directly (and thousands indirectly) weekly without any form of protection whatsoever. No way have we ever all been in this together.

?

From the ONS

•	Compared with the rate among people of the same sex and age in England and Wales, men working in elementary occupations had the highest rate of death involving COVID-19, with 39.7 deaths per 100,000 men (421 deaths); of the specific elementary occupations, men working as security guards had the highest rate, with 74.0 deaths per 100,000 (104 deaths). 
•	Men and women working in social care, a group including care workers and home carers, both had significantly raised rates of death involving COVID-19, with rates of 50.1 deaths per 100,000 men (97 deaths) and 19.1 deaths per 100,000 women (171 deaths).

There's a misconception that everyone who works in the private sector is a banker earning ££££ & getting huge bonuses. 🤷‍♀️

@StoneofDestiny

AIBU to think it's disgusting that the pay of Nurses, Prison Officers, police, Teachers and other public service workers who have kept us safe despite the risk to themselves throughout this Covid year are the ones that get their pay frozen

Whilst I'm not in the public sector anymore, work I've done has been towards the "covid effort". Pay freeze this year and next year if I still have a job.

It's not just the public sector who has frozen pay.

I am one of these workers

I feel like I went to work when others stayed at home. Putting myself at additional risk, I do feel the pay increases is justified & disappointed to hear this.

Public sector workers are paid more than private sector, the gap was narrowing but Covid will have an huge impact.

Depends what you are talking about really. That premium only really exists because you don't have loads of people on minimum wage in the public sector. Professional, knowledge-based jobs are paid much less in the public sector.

Rishi Sunak wants to use the overall figures as a justification for further pay freezes, all it does is punish the lower paid public sector workers and make it even harder to recruit for highly skilled professional positions.

@StartingGrid

Are there other people who did get rises then, as I didn't? Didn't think many would in the current climate. Not to say that a freeze for them is justified though

Yes MPS did

@Hopoindown31 Yes there is more of a disparity but it doesn't change the fact for many people depending the public sector is better. The main reason I moved back was the much better pension

I actually think a pay rise for the lowest pay workers isn't a bad idea but I doubt that would go down well.

@Hellin301

I am one of these workers

I feel like I went to work when others stayed at home. Putting myself at additional risk, I do feel the pay increases is justified & disappointed to hear this.

Lots of people in the private sector did the same thing.

@Hopoindown31 Yes there is more of a disparity but it doesn't change the fact for many people depending the public sector is better. The main reason I moved back was the much better pension.

Yes, but many of these lower paid public sector workers are the key workers either on the front lines of the COVID response or running essential public services during this difficult period. Pay and pensions may be a bit better (for lower paid workers) but should the public sector be embracing the zero hours low pay gig culture so prevalent in the private sector?

Saying that they should bear the cost of the pandemic response when the government splurges billions on new guns and has wasted huge amounts of money giving dodgy PPE contracts on a background of a decade of pay restraint while MPs pay has continually risen is pretty tough to take for people not earning much in the public sector.

I understand that there have been job losses in the private sector and that their are likely to be more, but so will their be in the public sector when budgets are cut. Playing off public Vs private is exactly what the government want to do to avoid taxing those at the top who are undertaxed to pay for this.

Lots of people in the private sector did the same thing.

Are they getting real terms pay cuts as a reward for that?

should the public sector be embracing the zero hours low pay gig culture so prevalent in the private sector?

"The modelled average public sector earnings premium was 7% in 2019." ONS & obviously this figure is higher for the bottom.

Who said anything about zero hours or changing contracts? The op is about a pay freeze during an pandemic.

many of these lower paid public sector workers are the key workers either on the front lines of the COVID response or running essential public services during this difficult period

This isn't exclusive to the public sector. The occupations most likely to die from Covid included security guards, cleaners, carers, construction workers.

"Security guards alone had the highest rate, with 74 deaths per 100,000."

Playing off public Vs private is exactly what the government want to do to avoid taxing those at the top who are undertaxed to pay for this.

How would you change the tax system?

However, when the private sector is doing well, we still haven't had a decent pay rise. So while I might understand that this year / next year etc I can't get a pay rise, what we do see is that even when the economy is doing well, we don't get a pay rise either. I think that's what bothers me - we get penalised either way.

As an example, my DH earns double what I do in the private sector. But he doesn't manage anyone and his actions at work might cause trouble, but no one will die because he doesn't do his job. I manage a team of 30+ who are responsible for providing care for the most vulnerable members of society. What sticks is that in a few years as the economy somehow gets back on its feet, the NHS will continue to be in austerity, forever trying to cut while ringing out as much as possible from its staff.

This is spot on. When the economy booms and private sector workers are getting pay rises and bonuses, that doesn't translate to the public sector. The NHS has been expected to make real-terms cuts for years, and will still be expected to after the economy has bounced back.

We shouldn't be arguing about who has it worse public sector workers or private. We also shouldn't be made to feel guilty for still having a job - if we've got one. The government needs to finally start taxing to people with real money in society. The top 1%. Trillions of pounds is lost every year in tax avoidance. These are the people making money out of the slow privatisation of the NHS and other public services, getting paid £21 million to buy a few masks for the NHS. Any decent government would tax these people first.

will still be expected to after the economy has bounced back.

This is the worrying aspect. It took around 10 yrs to have green shoots after the 08 crisis. Although unemployment was unusually low, wage stagnation was a legacy. So we are potentially looking at wage stagnation & unemployment plus a bigger shift to remote working & less manoeuvrability in terms of interest rates. I can't see how it can be managed without big tax hikes & that certainly won't be impacting the wealthy.

@Hopoindown31

Lots of people in the private sector did the same thing.

Are they getting real terms pay cuts as a reward for that?

Yes - lots of them took pay cuts of 20% or more back in March.

This is a consequence of us locking down twice. If you have thousands of people off work and not able to shop, eat out or support the arts, cinemas and leisure industries, we're not going to be able to afford to give people a pay rise.

Of course Boris shouldn't have spend billions on defence but let's be fair - we all knew this was coming. People fought for lockdown but very few people thought of the economic and financial disaster that would follow.

Public sector workers are paid more than private sector, the gap was narrowing but Covid will have an huge impact.

Not in my experience. I left the public sector almost doubled my salary with good benefits on top.

The government needs to finally start taxing to people with real money in society. The top 1%

I don't disagree but how does this work in practice as you need a global strategy. One of the biggest cause of inequality is inherited wealth but taxing that more is deeply unpopular with the electorate. Everyone criticise's Amazon but everyone shops there.

Public sector workers are paid more than private sector

This isn’t really true if you look at the detail, which Sunak doesn’t want you to do. Comparable roles are better paid in the private sector. Many of the low paid roles in the public sector have been privatised over the years, skewing the picture.

Also, the division between private and public sector is very blurred. There are large parts of the private sector that entirely depend on public money, for example outsourced healthcare, much private care work, refuse collection, road building and repairs etc.

And I could add Serco Test and Trace, PPE procurement that inexplicably involves paying brokers £21M, Kate Bingham’s PR machine...

There’s plenty of money for Johnson’s mates which would be better in the pockets of public sector workers so they can buy the goods and services that keep the private sector buoyant, that then feeds into the public purse... and so it goes. But no, we’ll just keep putting public money into the hands of the rich.

Everything is interlinked, but we are most definitely not all in it together. Pitting public sector against private sector is a distraction technique and we’re all falling for it.

@PhilCornwall1 That's great! Who needs statistical evidence when we have your anecdotal experience 🙄

I do understand the frustration, however, most private sector workers have had pay cuts so, although it feels harsh, COVID is a b1tch!