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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Priti Patel

380 replies

Walkaround · 20/11/2020 08:45

Is it actually possible to unintentionally bully someone? I always thought there had to be some knowledge of abuse of power - it’s supremely difficult to intimidate or coerce someone accidentally. The fact that the people Priti Patel works with as equals- other ministers - are falling over themselves to say how delightful she is to work with, whereas those who work for her accuse her of bullying surely makes it more likely her behaviour is deliberate bullying? Otherwise, her equals would find her to have an frightening, tyrannical demeanour, too!

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Walkaround · 22/11/2020 13:59

Well, of course not, StormzyinaTCup, bullies don’t have that sort of a conscience, or they wouldn’t bully in the first place.

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Walkaround · 22/11/2020 14:11

The Home Office is by its nature racist due to the political promises made by ministers - you can’t reduce immigration by the amounts constantly being promised, and save taxpayers the amount of money constantly promised by politicians without trying to find every excuse possible not to let people into the country and every excuse possible not to give them payouts. Ministers need to be more honest about the consequences of their promises, rather than pretending it is possible to carry them out both fairly and cheaply.

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Hayeahnobut · 22/11/2020 14:14

I've seen lots of Conservative MPs trying to defend her bullying as 'robust behaviour', but not one has stood up and said that bullying is unacceptable. Is this the message we're giving to our kids?

I note that there is no longer a Minister for Suicide Prevention. It would be hypocritical for the government to continue to pretend to care about mental health, when they so actively condone bullying.

Tellmetruth4 · 22/11/2020 14:27

To be honest I’ve changed my mind on this. I can’t stand Patel or her ‘Britannia Unchained’ politics and was blinded by my dislike of her so immediately took the side of the civil servants. However, on reflection I don’t believe they were the innocent victims they claimed to be and I can well imagine that they were not pleased about taking orders from an Asian woman and wanted to make her life difficult in order to drive her out.

As a mixed raced woman I’ve had to deal with middle aged middle class white men not treating me with the same respect they would treat my middle class white male peers and it’s shit because when you challenge it, you’re made out to be an unreasonable bitch.

They almost succeeded in removing her and I was initially hoping they would as I can’t stand bullying but the more I hear about that dept, the more I believe it clearly needs a complete overhaul.

I have no doubt she probably did blow her fuse but I bet she had been goaded into it.

To be fair though Patel doesn’t help herself as she’s so keen to ingratiate herself with the Tory base that she’d deny racism and sexism exists publicly whilst knowing she’s a victim of it. It must eat her up inside.

Schummakker · 22/11/2020 14:32

@Tellmetruth4

So have you seen her comments on proposing food shortages to Ireland, her attitude and solutions to asylum seekers? Her being investigated for bullying across three departments? And yet you now think the criticism is due to her being Asian?

Schummakker · 22/11/2020 14:34

@Tellmetruth4

Your experience of standing up to racist white men at work has little to do with her being a bully.

Tellmetruth4 · 22/11/2020 14:44

No what I’m saying is that the people accusing her are not wholly innocent. It’s six of one, half dozen of the other. I’ve no doubt that she probably did yell and swear but I also don’t doubt that they were deliberately trying to make her life hard as they didn’t want to take orders from her.

I genuinely can’t stand her and believe she’s horrible and the things she said about Ireland are disgusting but just because she’s an arsehole doesn’t mean her accusers aren’t also arseholes.

I’m on Team Nobody in this situation.

MimiDaisy11 · 22/11/2020 14:57

If she genuinely didn't know swearing and screaming weren't acceptable to do then why did she do them behind closed doors?

JacobReesMogadishu · 22/11/2020 15:01

If she genuinely doesn’t know that swearing and screaming at people is unacceptable at work (or indeed anywhere) she’s too thick or nasty to be in the job.

Walkaround · 22/11/2020 15:03

@Tellmetruth4 - but the independent report was very even handed in this regard, explicitly pointing out bad behaviour on both sides, yet still concluded Priti Patel was a bully. Yet you are concluding that is OK, because she is Asian. Sorry, but I strongly disagree with your logic - especially considering allegations against her include a £25,000 payout to a former aide (long before she was in the Home Office) to stop her taking her claims against Priti Patel to a tribunal.

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Walkaround · 22/11/2020 15:06

I mean, really, is the Government so devoid of talent that Boris Johnson cannot find someone capable of heading the Home Office who does not have a track record for bullying?

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VinylDetective · 22/11/2020 15:18

@Tellmetruth4

No what I’m saying is that the people accusing her are not wholly innocent. It’s six of one, half dozen of the other. I’ve no doubt that she probably did yell and swear but I also don’t doubt that they were deliberately trying to make her life hard as they didn’t want to take orders from her.

I genuinely can’t stand her and believe she’s horrible and the things she said about Ireland are disgusting but just because she’s an arsehole doesn’t mean her accusers aren’t also arseholes.

I’m on Team Nobody in this situation.

When one person is in a position of power, there’s o such thing as six of one and half dozen of the other. Yelling and swearing at people with less power than you is never justified. I bet she doesn’t behave like that with her male fellow ministers.
Thewoodfromthetrees · 22/11/2020 15:30

The whole thing smells rancid of racism and sexism, one standard for white males and another for ethnic minority females. White females have had to be aggressive to get ahead in the work place and Priti is following suit so why is everyone making so much noise? The lady is talented, well done to Priti

Thewoodfromthetrees · 22/11/2020 15:31

I don't agree with bullying but it can't be one standard for white males and another for females

StormzyinaTCup · 22/11/2020 15:59

Find me an example of any head of the HO who has been able to make the changes required by playing nicely, it can’t be done because the HO has been entrenched for many years.

David Blunkett on the HO
“It was a very difficult line to tread. These people can do you in. David [Blunketf] was mindful of that. He felt, ‘If I try and have too much of a clear-out of people who aren’t doing enough, then they can bring me tumbling down quite easily.’

“The people inside the Home Office didn’t believe that we would do what we said. And they had a policy of their own. I’ve never experienced anything quite like the first few months here. We were running parallel policies. There were my policies and there was what officials called ‘Home Office policy’, and that was what they worked to. I had to say to them over and over again, ‘There is only one policy and it’s what we say it is.'”

That was 20 years ago

Amber Rudd on Rutnam
“I find his absence inappropriate. He was absent through my final few weeks and days. I think a good permanent secretary would lean in to a real difficulty like this rather than sit back from it.” Asked if he was supportive, she said: “No, not really.”

That was just two years ago.

From my article posted earlier:
“The Home Office has always played dirty when a minister attempts to overturn its shibboleths. The moment its mandarins sniff trouble, stories start appearing in the press about how the new minister is out of his or her depth, unthinking, posturing and — always the same — a variation on stupid”

And to highlight that particular point I refer you back to what an earlier poster said of ‘someone’ she knew who worked in the HO:

Busybusybust
I know someone who recent retired from the Home Office. He say she truly is a nasty piece of work, and it’s well known that she is incredibly thick Civil servant’ measure of how understandable a document was: ‘will Priti Patel understand it’

VinylDetective · 22/11/2020 16:06

That’s all fascinating @StormzyinaTCup, however Patel’s reputation as a bully was well established long before she arrived at the Home Office.

ListeningQuietly · 22/11/2020 16:10

Priti Patel is a nasty bully

she was one LONG BEFORE she arrived at the Home Office

she will still be one even after she leaves Parliament

attitudes like hers have no place being funded by taxpayers

Walkaround · 22/11/2020 16:16

@StormzyinaTCup - and I point you towards the other departments Priti Patel has worked in and the independent report. She crossed the line David Blunkett talked about, and has crossed the line in departments elsewhere. If she wanted to bring the HO under control, she had to do it without being a bully. And if Boris Johnson wanted to be able to support her credibly, he should not have supported Dominic Cummings incredibly, because his judgement on the people surrounding him is otherwise clearly questionable.

When it comes to track records, Boris Johnson and Priti Patel already have their own track records counting against them. And @Thewoodfromthetrees, the payout was made to a female civil servant, not a white male. I don’t think Priti Patel controls her temper around women and reserves her swearing for white men’s ears only. I think she is a bully and also think Boris Johnson found this useful, like he found Dominic Cummings’s behaviour useful. Unfortunately, as these people are bullies and hypocrites, this fact cannot go unnoticed forever.

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KaptainKaveman · 22/11/2020 16:17

@JacobReesMogadishu

If she genuinely doesn’t know that swearing and screaming at people is unacceptable at work (or indeed anywhere) she’s too thick or nasty to be in the job.
Yes I think this captures it really.

She's had a reputation for years as a foul mouthed bully. It's nothing new.

Her comments about witholding food from N Ireland and those relating to refugees firmly put her in the dual category of racist as well as pigshit thick.

Thewoodfromthetrees · 22/11/2020 16:17

What evidence do you have to support that she was a bully before arriving at the Home Office? I'm not sure about that. She may just be acting like the typical white male

Walkaround · 22/11/2020 16:20

@Thewoodfromthetrees - I’ve already set that out on this thread. You could either try reading the thread, or do a Google search for reports.

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ListeningQuietly · 22/11/2020 16:21

What evidence do you have to support that she was a bully before arriving at the Home Office?
Employment tribunal payouts
Complaints
Enquiry reports
Wikipedia has the links

Walkaround · 22/11/2020 16:22

And I disagree that the typical white male shouts and swears at the people working for them. I also disagree that if they do, they should be anyone’s role model.

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KaptainKaveman · 22/11/2020 16:23

There is a mass of evidence. Feel free to source it, as I have.

"she may just be acting like the typical white male". And what is that, exactly?

Thewoodfromthetrees · 22/11/2020 16:26

So most likely the bullying claims are true but why single her out more than anyone else? This is my point. Males and females should be treated equally in the work place

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