Priti Patel

[Walkaround]

Is it actually possible to unintentionally bully someone? I always thought there had to be some knowledge of abuse of power - it’s supremely difficult to intimidate or coerce someone accidentally. The fact that the people Priti Patel works with as equals- other ministers - are falling over themselves to say how delightful she is to work with, whereas those who work for her accuse her of bullying surely makes it more likely her behaviour is deliberate bullying? Otherwise, her equals would find her to have an frightening, tyrannical demeanour, too!

Also, the Cabinet Office is not her department. The Home Office is. Michael Gove runs the Cabinet Office with the help of Penny Mordant.

@mellongoose - so the same woman has found brick walls in every department she has worked in and it’s her employees who are all the problem, not her behaviour?! Yeah, right.

Yes, sorry - she’s a cabinet minister, but currently in the Home Office. Previously in other departments, not always at cabinet level.

PP always apologises "if" her words or actions upset someone.

IIRC she did the same not long back about something else?

I've never liked her because she always has had an air of superiority about her that comes across as cold and domineering. There's no warmth and I don't feel any genuine feeling towards what she's doing.

Out of interest, how would you deal with these men? I don't want to know what you wouldn't do, because the answer is swearing etc, but I'd be interested to know how you would deal with them actively working against you when you are trying to get an agenda through? Genuine question.

The senior civil service (not impartial I'm afraid) disagrees with the British people.

@SebastianTheCrab

Am I the only one that sees a woman of colour in power accused of bullying and my first reaction is scepticism?

The amount of vitriol Patel gets is completely disproportional and, imo, fueled by sexism and racism.

I don't agree at all with this. Stella Braverman is just as cruel and dodgy and she gets away with it. No one (yet) as called her to account. Except the bar who told her she was unprofessional as AG for taking sides during some of the scandals.

If it was exist and racism she wouldn't (so far) have got away with it

@mellongoose - worth asking Theresa May. She dealt with them for 6 years without being accused of bullying, so far as I’m aware.

I wonder how many bullies will use unintentional as an excuse now

Sadly bullying in the workplace seems to be common and widespread and is swept under the carpet. Victims go off with stress and are then got rid off with a compromise agreement to keep quiet about it.

Someone intelligent enough to deal with them without shouting, swearing and bullying ought to work there if they want change. Someone with integrity who can earn respect from people who disagree with them.

[quote Walkaround]@mellongoose - worth asking Theresa May. She dealt with them for 6 years without being accused of bullying, so far as I’m aware.[/quote]
That's because she agreed with them.

I'm honestly not try to be goady, I'm trying to point out what a difficult task she has. I would rather have an elected representative in charge of the department and some departments are trying (sometimes succeeding) in the reverse.

How would you assert your authority in this case?

@mellongoose - Theresa May did not agree with them! What gives you that impression?!

Do you actually mean, Theresa May was better at getting her civil servants to do her bidding?

Do you mean, Theresa May was tolerable to work for (although also, reputedly, a difficult person with an eye to detail).

It’s classic bullying to claim you have to be an intolerable bully to get things done. The opposite is true.

Trump is also a bully who likes to ignore codes of conduct and belittle anyone who disagrees with him. Look at what effect that is having on the atmosphere in the US. Bullies just stir things up, they don’t improve them. They thrive on discord and don’t know how to deal with compromise, because they perceive it as weakness - they have to win at all costs, even if the cost is to destroy everything around them.

Out of interest, how would you deal with these men? I don't want to know what you wouldn't do, because the answer is swearing etc, but I'd be interested to know how you would deal with them actively working against you when you are trying to get an agenda through? Genuine question. You use the disciplinary procedure, it can take time and can be frustrating but that is what you do.

There are a lot of behaviours more traditionally seen as masculine that are seen as very negative and unacceptable in women. Shouting, swearing and bullying are also seen as negative in men. In my working life, over 50 years, I've had two bosses like that. One of them drove me to the verge of a nervous breakdown, he was a bully and if it was your "turn" to be the target other people turned a blind eye as they didn't want him to start on them. I have undying respect for the male member of staff who backed me up at a large meeting when I was the subject of his vitriol. I drove home in tears and was admitted to hospital later that night with a threatened miscarriage.

If you think that was OK because he was a man I am lost for words.

With the second one I was older and more senior and I dealt with his behaviour and protected alot of junior staff. It was a difficult situation as he owned the company, he was well aware that I wouldn't stand for his behaviour and would take legal action if required. We had an interesting relationship.

I think some people are naive on the day to day workings of the home office and yes it could be much more akin to a trading floor than your bog standard office environment.

There are two ways of enacting policy at the Home Office, the version run by 'unelected' top civil servants or the HO Minster's version that was 'elected by the people'. The problem comes when the minster wants to implement what was voted for and the 'unelected' make it very difficult. I'm not surprised she lost her s**t.

It's a problem that has faced many HO ministers. I was all for Dominic Cummings coming in and shaking this particular nest. DC was public enemy number 1 and Priti Patel is number 2.

So, much more like a trading floor than your bog standard office.

@Walkaround

It’s classic bullying to claim you have to be an intolerable bully to get things done. The opposite is true.

I'm genuinely asking how you would deal with it. I'm not condoning anything (obviously!)

@StormzyinaTCup - absolute and utter bollocks and condoning of bullying. There is no resemblance whatsoever between trading securities and enacting government policy, unless of course you are talking about the fact that obnoxious, bullying personalities can be found in both environments. And Priti Patel has lost her shit everywhere, so don’t pretend this is a Home Office specific issue.

@mellongoose - I have answered that already - by having someone who isn’t a bully at the helm. As has also already been pointed out, there are disciplinary procedures to follow if civil servants are not doing their jobs properly, same as in any other workplace.

[quote Walkaround]@mellongoose - I have answered that already - by having someone who isn’t a bully at the helm. As has also already been pointed out, there are disciplinary procedures to follow if civil servants are not doing their jobs properly, same as in any other workplace.[/quote]
Then you do not understand the gravity of the task she faces.

@mellongoose - then you condone bullying.

@MyNameIsArthur sadly you may well be proved correct.

@MullinerSpec

I've said this on another similar thread: So Rutnam was senior civil servant during the Windrush scandal, his department gave misleading info to Amber Rudd which meant she resigned and he now feels that he was unfairly treated and bullied because he was doing a sh*t job! Bullying is wrong but what would you do as a manager if you inherit a useless team who won't go and can't be fired because they have a cushy pension and salary.

Look at it this way 2 women Home Secretaries have been subjected to the home office civil service incompetence 1 paid for with loss of her job and the other, PP, being accused of bullying all to get them to work properly. And yes being a woman does have a lot to do with this a man would have got away with it, I'm speaking as a man.

Who is she accused of bullying, particularly?

Senior civil servants or the secretaries?

People who can and do stand up to her or ones who aren't in a position to?

Do the civil servants do what she requests/orders or do they obfuscate and block? (not unheard of )

I need to read more about it.