Figures Don’t Lie, But Liars Do Figure (Trump thread #114)

[TheNorthWestPawsage]

Enough already! Delusional, depraved, but DEFEATED. We may have to wait until Jan 20th but 45 will be GONE. McConnell is next...

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4076183-Donald-has-barricaded-himself-in-the-WH-and-we-have-Georgia-on-our-minds-Trump-thread-113

[quote lionheart]www.nbcnews.com/now/video/experts-worry-trump-can-t-be-trusted-with-nation-s-secrets-after-leaving-office-96714821678[/quote]
POTUS is a political office and as such doesn't have great access to classified information beyond headlines. Lots of stuff we'd never know, of course. But very little on the hows and wheres.

@BruceAndNosh

Let's just say that the sideview of the President has generated a lot of speculation

Rushes off to Google...

I would advise against it.....

I hadn't seen the sideview in combination with Diaper Don, I can't unsee it now (not envy)

There are a few 'acceptable' methods still in states but they dont tend to get used- hanging, firing squad, gas chamber, electric chair. Belarus uses shooting and its also a crap method. Crazy vets can put animals to sleep peacefully but they cant find a good method, not that they should.

Arnt they Bostom bombers on federal death row?

@user1471565182

There are a few 'acceptable' methods still in states but they dont tend to get used- hanging, firing squad, gas chamber, electric chair. Belarus uses shooting and its also a crap method. Crazy vets can put animals to sleep peacefully but they cant find a good method, not that they should.

Do they still do short-drop hanging ?

Just looked it up and this article is really, really interesting

www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/why-a-court-overturned-the-death-sentence-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-the-boston-marathon-bomber

They use the same method as they used in the UK up until the 60s I believe-long drop that if done properly puts somebody unconcious straight away through breaking spine . last time I read abiut it I think it was only a possible to be used in Washington state but they dont really do executions there.

ohh it was abolished there in 2018 it seems.

woooah the last person to be hung was in 1996 in delaware.

@user1471565182

They use the same method as they used in the UK up until the 60s I believe-long drop that if done properly puts somebody unconcious straight away through breaking spine . last time I read abiut it I think it was only a possible to be used in Washington state but they dont really do executions there.

An interesting read by anyones standards is Albert Pierrepoints autobiography. If just for his (possibly ghostwritten) rejection of the death penalty at the end.

As previously discussed, there's not much appetite in the US for humane executions, so I guess the "any drop" method is better. Pierrepoint is certainly very critical of the botched hangings of the US army at Nuremberg which (arguably) led to some suicides from cyanide, rather than endure the agony of a 20 minute dangle.

And as the photographs released afterwards showed, they also managed to bugger up building a gallows. Still not quite as dinner-launching as photos of decapitation by hanging, or indeed any modern day execution in Saudi Arabia.

Supposedly the US guy who did the hangings at nuremberg lied about his experience and was a big drinker. Theres a really good film (just called Pierrepoint, although it might have a different name in US) about him and the last few years of the UK death penalty. Not exactly christmas day viewing though.

The Soviets intentionally used short drop on their Nazi war criminals.

[quote user1471565182]Just looked it up and this article is really, really interesting

www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/why-a-court-overturned-the-death-sentence-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-the-boston-marathon-bomber[/quote]
I've never agreed with the jury tampering that is removing opponents of capital punishment. To the extent that I would lie if asked (not that anyones personal beliefs should prevent them being a juror).

It was juries increasing reluctance to convict in capital cases in Britain that finally led to abolition. And that would not have happened if the state had been allowed to stack the deck and remove "inconvenient" jurors prior to trial.

Personally I am a massive Devlin fan, and never miss an opportunity to quote:

"Each jury is a little parliament. The jury sense is the parliamentary sense. I cannot see the one dying and the other surviving. The first object of any tyrant in Whitehall would be to make parliament utterly subservient to his will; and the next to overthrow or diminish trial by jury, for no tyrant could afford to leave a subject's freedom in the hands of 12 of his countrymen. So that trial by jury is more than an instrument of justice and more than one wheel of the constitution; it is the lamp that shows that freedom lives."

If capital punishment were to be restored to England, then I would find anyone facing the death penalty innocent. And I would do my utmost to convince my fellow jurors too.

@user1471565182

The Soviets intentionally used short drop on their Nazi war criminals.

That presupposes they could have performed a long drop hanging ...

Pierrepoint isn't a very reliable witness in some areas (I mean there's something deeply unsettling about his admission he had a "special" leather strap for "special" victims). However some of his facts seem to hold water.

He was very critical of the US need to have the condemned standing on the gallows for ages while the charges were read. And if you are going to have capital punishment, it's hard to imagine a more humane way than the 8 seconds from door to drop that he had mastered.

Ultimately the problem with capital punishment is that unless you are going to boldly state you have a perfect criminal justice system. That is 100% perfect with no mistakes ever. Then you are basically admitting you are going to kill the wrong person sometime soon. Simple as that. No ifs. No buts. You will kill someone innocent.

Not in my name.

And having killed the wrong person, the system will do all in it's power to avoid admitting it - even if that means a murderer remains free. Because police are hardly going to go looking for "The Malvern Murderer" again after they are supposed to have caught and executed them are they ?

There was a very good Ted talk given by a juror who had voted to convict for the death penalty. She had regretted it ever since and went on a journey to find her fellow jurors who had similarly voted to convict. A significant number of them had regretted there decision and had been suffering from PTSD ever since. It really highlights the impact of capital punishment on all involved in the process. It's really worth a look.

@ludothedog

There was a very good Ted talk given by a juror who had voted to convict for the death penalty. She had regretted it ever since and went on a journey to find her fellow jurors who had similarly voted to convict. A significant number of them had regretted there decision and had been suffering from PTSD ever since. It really highlights the impact of capital punishment on all involved in the process. It's really worth a look.

I wonder what would happen were a juror to "change their mind" over the death penalty halfway through the trial ? Especially in these days when you aren't ever allowed to change your mind, by order of Twitter ?

To lower the tone again re Diaper Don...

This article references the (alleged) diaper usage (allegedly )

Full Disclosure: An Interview with Noel Casler
The former "Celebrity Apprentice" talent handler on what he saw behind the scenes.
gregolear.substack.com/p/full-disclosure-an-interview-with

Have you seen his latest? Did I miss your comments or have you just decided to ignore his abject stupidity? https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1332352538855747584?s=21

Sorry, forgot this. Will he never give up? Will he cause civil war?

[quote TheNorthWestPawsage]To lower the tone again re Diaper Don...

This article references the (alleged) diaper usage (allegedly )

Full Disclosure: An Interview with Noel Casler
The former "Celebrity Apprentice" talent handler on what he saw behind the scenes.
gregolear.substack.com/p/full-disclosure-an-interview-with[/quote]
I saw that and couldn't quite decide if he was just being funny or if it was true!

If I didn't know better, I'd say Trump was being paid by the Tory party to make Boris look like Charlemagne.

Oh dear

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Biden can only enter the White House as President if he can prove that his ridiculous “80,000,000 votes” were not fraudulently or illegally obtained. When you see what happened in Detroit, Atlanta, Philadelphia & Milwaukee, massive voter fraud, he’s got a big unsolvable problem!

@chomalungma

Oh dear

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Biden can only enter the White House as President if he can prove that his ridiculous “80,000,000 votes” were not fraudulently or illegally obtained. When you see what happened in Detroit, Atlanta, Philadelphia & Milwaukee, massive voter fraud, he’s got a big unsolvable problem!

Whatcha gonna do about it ?

Meanwhile.

BREAKING: Third Circuit court of appeals rejects appeal of Trump campaign lawsuit in Pennsylvania.

“The campaign’s claims have no merit.”

The judge in this case was appointed by Donald J Trump. (Judges gonna judge)