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Figures Don’t Lie, But Liars Do Figure (Trump thread #114)

999 replies

TheNorthWestPawsage · 19/11/2020 22:10

Enough already! Delusional, depraved, but DEFEATED. We may have to wait until Jan 20th but 45 will be GONE. McConnell is next...

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4076183-Donald-has-barricaded-himself-in-the-WH-and-we-have-Georgia-on-our-minds-Trump-thread-113

OP posts:
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46
AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 23/11/2020 14:59

DGRossetti
"Most of the madness this time round has been because Trumpists saw the early counts and thought they were the results, not realising that until the counts from mail-in voting were completed as well the half-way results didn't, well, count."

I respectfully disagree. You are dealing with people who are acting as if they are possessed - or following a religion.

I should have said "much of". I have heard a lot of Trump supporters on the radio who are saying "we were way ahead when I went to sleep and then when I got up in the morning he was ahead, so during the night they must have sneaked in a lot of illegal votes for him" or wtte. Because it went one way and then the other, it is a lot easier for people who want to think they were robbed to think so. If something is presented as a one-off fact, it's less simple to deny without looking silly even to oneself.

I have not in this country ever heard anyone say anything of that sort; we don't get any results until we get the whole result for a given constituency, so we don't get the see-saw and repeated hope-despair cycle. Well, I did once live in a constituency where there were several recounts because there were only ten votes in it, but the public were not told which way it had gone before each recount, only the final decision.

The people you speak of, for whom the Orange Otang is Jim Jones, will claim it's a fake when Trump stumbles senile to his grave shouting madly about having to stop things which happened fifty years ago; the less completely loopy ones would have less to feed their folly if it were not handed to them so readily.

PerkingFaintly · 23/11/2020 15:24

An example from the field of Covid (mis)information.

If one were trying to spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, or merely to use fear to trigger clicks for profit, one could run stories with headlines like "Oxford vaccine: will it even work?" and "Oxford vaccine: but how can it be safe?"

This is exactly what disinformation actors and unfortunately many news outlets do.

In contrast, I can see two headlines on BBC News today which could be for stories covering similar contents to the above but which essentially "treat the wound, not the hit".

Covid-19: Oxford University vaccine is highly effective
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55040635

Oxford vaccine: How did they make it so quickly?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371

DGRossetti · 23/11/2020 15:32

If one were trying to spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, or merely to use fear to trigger clicks for profit, one could run stories with headlines like "Oxford vaccine: will it even work?" and "Oxford vaccine: but how can it be safe?"

Betteridges law of headlines always applies.

Also Hitchens razor.

However, be aware that just as Galileo was never meant to point his telescope at the heavens, you can get into serious trouble if you point your filter of bullshit where it's not supposed to go. Really serious trouble.

Anon778833 · 23/11/2020 15:45

I am finished. I am sick of these people, reading their messages and listening to their bullshit is actually starting to make me physically sick too.

I'm glad I'm not the only one having to put up with this nonsense. I'm feeling the same way. It is indeed like a religion.

DGRossetti · 23/11/2020 15:57

@SugarbabyMilly

I am finished. I am sick of these people, reading their messages and listening to their bullshit is actually starting to make me physically sick too.

I'm glad I'm not the only one having to put up with this nonsense. I'm feeling the same way. It is indeed like a religion.

Deliberate ignorance needs to be called out.

Every time.

DuncinToffee · 23/11/2020 16:00

Here is a CNN article explaining what to expect this week with certifications

edition.cnn.com/2020/11/23/politics/trump-battleground-state-election-results-certification/index.html

DGRossetti · 23/11/2020 16:03

[quote DuncinToffee]Here is a CNN article explaining what to expect this week with certifications

edition.cnn.com/2020/11/23/politics/trump-battleground-state-election-results-certification/index.html[/quote]
Most of the counties in the Keystone State are slated to certify their election results on Monday

Sorry, I really couldn't help but think of the Keystone cops ....

Anon778833 · 23/11/2020 16:07

*Deliberate ignorance needs to be called out.

Every time.*

Believe me I've tried. I'm now on the point of accusations levelled at me that I'm being controlled by Satan.

Unfortunately for me, I've had to hear this since the 1st lockdown. being told about Melania'a dress having symbols of Q on and that Trump is being protected by the military. 🙄🙄🙄

My feelings was that he (probably) wouldn't win another term. So I was waiting for this to be over. Unfortunately the Trumpites are now even more hysterical than they ever were.

DGRossetti · 23/11/2020 16:18

@SugarbabyMilly

*Deliberate ignorance needs to be called out.

Every time.*

Believe me I've tried. I'm now on the point of accusations levelled at me that I'm being controlled by Satan.

Unfortunately for me, I've had to hear this since the 1st lockdown. being told about Melania'a dress having symbols of Q on and that Trump is being protected by the military. 🙄🙄🙄

My feelings was that he (probably) wouldn't win another term. So I was waiting for this to be over. Unfortunately the Trumpites are now even more hysterical than they ever were.

I have a very - very - short fuse with people. Basically once you've announced you are a moron, you are out. If I have to deal with you then it'll be purely functional. Every day I wake that tiny bit closer to death, and I am not devoting what little is left of my life to engaging with idiots.

Some people (me included) don't know some shit, but ask questions and clearly add to their store of knowledge and world view. They're the x% that make it all worthwhile.

Some others, don't know some shit because they never wanted to know it in the first place. And they can just fuck off. Right off.

BruceAndNosh · 23/11/2020 16:27

Trump has not tweeted AT ALL this morning (now 1125 Washington DC). I can only assume he's accidentally dropped his phone down the toilet and it's currently drying out in a bag of rice

chomalungma · 23/11/2020 16:40

What really works is to expose people to material which treats the psychological impression the attack has created

Overcoming their bias by playing with their cognitive dissonance?

PatriciaHolm · 23/11/2020 16:47

@SugarbabyMilly

*Deliberate ignorance needs to be called out.

Every time.*

Believe me I've tried. I'm now on the point of accusations levelled at me that I'm being controlled by Satan.

Unfortunately for me, I've had to hear this since the 1st lockdown. being told about Melania'a dress having symbols of Q on and that Trump is being protected by the military. 🙄🙄🙄

My feelings was that he (probably) wouldn't win another term. So I was waiting for this to be over. Unfortunately the Trumpites are now even more hysterical than they ever were.

That sounds more worrying than just having gone down a few too many internet wormholes. Controlled by Satan? Has he a history of mental health issues?

And it's too much to hope that Trump isn't tweeting because someone has finally taped him to his chair and wrestled the phone away, isn't it...

DGRossetti · 23/11/2020 16:49

@chomalungma

What really works is to expose people to material which treats the psychological impression the attack has created

Overcoming their bias by playing with their cognitive dissonance?

Hmm

The problem is once you embark on a conspiraloon journey, there are no more stops. It becomes endless. Every contradiction has an "explanation". Just look at how JFK jerks, flat earth fools and moon hoax morons create ever elaborate "theories". I mean you only have to be told once that the reason people think we went to the moon was the CIAs secret mass hypnosis program of the 1960s, and you realise there are some lost causes out there.

And that's before you start introducing the Mandela effect

PerkingFaintly · 23/11/2020 16:52

I'm not sure.

Seems to me more like harnessing the learning parts of their brain that aren't about logic. It also doesn't require them admitting that another person is right and they are wrong. They are making their decision "from the new information" not from kowtowing to someone else's order.

Plus, there's the power of sheer repetition. This seems to me to be much harnessed by the disinformation merchants to establish even very unlikely narratives as "true" just by constant background repetition.

PerkingFaintly · 23/11/2020 16:52

That was to chomalungma.

DGRossetti · 23/11/2020 17:01

Thinking is hard. On a biochemical level it's hard. It uses precious energy that all biological organisms reserve for the four Fs. Fight, flight, food and reproduction. (Finking is a stretch Smile)

So there is some sense in a drive amongst organisms that operate collectively - like h. sapiens - to outsource thinking if possible. Which explains religion of course.

The real question is whether the tendency to outsource thinking is innate via some weird genetic manifestation, or (as I would like to believe) it's more nuanced and is enhanced or repressed by environment.

BruceAndNosh · 23/11/2020 18:25

Graham, loeffler, Perdue and at least one other are demanding that signature verification form part of the Georgia recount, totally ignoring the fact that you cannot reunite a ballot with its original signed envelope. This is to ensure that who you voted for remains anonymous

Cacacoisfarraige · 23/11/2020 18:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chomalungma · 23/11/2020 18:28

Just rewatching West Wing.

Bartlett won on the first night to get a 2nd term.

No appeals.
No tweets.

Msloverlover · 23/11/2020 18:36

I loved this @DGRossetti. Too bloody right.

Msloverlover · 23/11/2020 18:37

Tried to quote your message but it wouldn’t let me!

PerkingFaintly · 23/11/2020 18:56

Graham, loeffler, Perdue and at least one other are demanding that signature verification form part of the Georgia recount, totally ignoring the fact that you cannot reunite a ballot with its original signed envelope.

I doubt they're ignoring it. Surely the reason they have asked for this that they know it's impossible.

Disruption and delegitimization is the game, remember.

DGRossetti · 23/11/2020 18:58

Is there not a large cohort of Americans who are taught from birth that independent thinking is bad, that he have to do what they’re told by parent/pastor/other white male authority figure in most cases.

There certainly is in England.

DGRossetti · 23/11/2020 18:59

@BruceAndNosh

Graham, loeffler, Perdue and at least one other are demanding that signature verification form part of the Georgia recount, totally ignoring the fact that you cannot reunite a ballot with its original signed envelope. This is to ensure that who you voted for remains anonymous
In the UK you can reunite a ballot with a voter if you wish. It's why they note the serial number against your name when they issue it.

It would take a special order from a judge to do so. And I believe that all ballots are destroyed after 6 months anyway.

OVienna · 23/11/2020 19:15

@PatriciaHolm my relatives believe that Satan is afoot in the US. Name checked him. So, if this can be attributed to mental illness there are a lot of diagnosably unwell people there. It is very much cultural.

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