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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Camilla should be queen?

392 replies

Brian9600 · 18/11/2020 17:47

Just interested in people's views. The whole Charles/Diana/Camilla thing was grim but it's also grim that she's the one treated as responsible rather than him. All water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned.

(Obviously some people would get rid of the lot of them, and fair enough.)

Vote YANBU for Queen Camilla
Vote YABU for Never Queen Camilla

OP posts:
Angrycat2768 · 18/11/2020 19:45

I agree with others. We have no choice. The next in line to the throne is The Monarch. Whether they are mad, evil, a nazi ( unless they abdicate) a complete sociopath etc. We cant choose. If we want to choose, then we should have a Republic like the RoI where they choose the ceremonial head of state. If you want a monarchy you get the ceremonial Head of State you're given whether you like it or not. FWIW I think Charles and Camilla will make a better King and Queen than workshy William and Kate.

Roselilly36 · 18/11/2020 19:45

No

Chocolatedeficitdisorder · 18/11/2020 19:46

I think she is great for this country.

As long as that country is England.

I don't think the majority of Scots under 50 have any fondness for the royal family and we would be happy to end their reign when QEII dies.

WitchesSpelleas · 18/11/2020 19:46

Can someone clarify for me that if Charles were to abdicate, doesn’t that remove his line of succession? So William and George would be out of the running. It would have to go to one of his siblings? Andrew???

The terms of the abdication would be determined by the Act of Parliament. EVIII had no children when he abdicated but the terms of his abdication ruled out any future children he might have. I think it's unlikely that, if Charles abdicated, his line of succession would be ruled out - but I think the chance of Charles abdicating is tiny-to-non-existent.

Smallsteps88 · 18/11/2020 19:46

I’d be ok with Anne being Queen, she’d probably happily do away with the monarchy altogether if she was!

See I don’t think Anne would be the next in line, because she is female, Andrew and Edward and their DC would come before her. The rules only changed when Kate was pregnant with George in case he was a girl but I don’t think they apply retroactively.

LadyTiredWinterBottom2 · 18/11/2020 19:46

No way Charles will abdicate. It was the abdication that has made the Queen so full in about duty and protocol, that in turn prevented Charles from marrying Camilla in the first place.

PrincessNutNut · 18/11/2020 19:47

workshy William

He was an RAF search and rescue pilot.

ThePinkGuitar · 18/11/2020 19:47

They deserve each other. The pair of them together are nothing but a reminder of their shitty dirty behaviour and always will be.

It would do the monarchy a favour if they both just buggered off into obscurity and let William go ahead. Wont happen though.

Here, here 🙌 she should never be queen and wouldn’t rather Charles wasn’t king as well cannot bear either of them. Would be terrible for the Royal family as well Charles knows he should do the right thing and step aside.

Smallsteps88 · 18/11/2020 19:48

The terms of the abdication would be determined by the Act of Parliament. EVIII had no children when he abdicated but the terms of his abdication ruled out any future children he might have. I think it's unlikely that, if Charles abdicated, his line of succession would be ruled out - but I think the chance of Charles abdicating is tiny-to-non-existent.

Thank you! So it’s not a rule that Charles’ line would be removed. It is decided by parliament on an individual basis. I agree Charles won’t abdicate or “pass” on the job.

Whenwemeet · 18/11/2020 19:48

@PrincessNutNut But they are not one dimensional people who should be defined forever by this one thing, especially as it has since become as clear as day that Charles and Diana were never truly in love (though her innocence was exploited - that's awful) and he and Camilla have been in love for nearly 50 years.

She still had a choice as to whether to engage in an affair or not. She could have said to him divorce diana (not unheard of in the royal family) and then we will be together. I think it says a lot about her character that she was happy to have an affair with a married man of young sons and knowing his wife. It takes a special kind of person to do that in my view - and not a good one.

And again I highly doubt many posters here would be saying of the OW that they ‘shouldn’t be defined’ by getting involved with a married man!

Angrycat2768 · 18/11/2020 19:49

He was a very part time search and rescue pilot and I dont think he even flew. They invented a job for him to do sitting next to the actual pilot.

Smallsteps88 · 18/11/2020 19:49

Would be terrible for the Royal family as well Charles knows he should do the right thing and step aside.

He can’t just step aside!!

WitchesSpelleas · 18/11/2020 19:50

The rules only changed when Kate was pregnant with George in case he was a girl but I don’t think they apply retroactively.

They don't - line is Charles, William, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry, Archie, Andrew, Beatrice, Eugenie, (Eugenie's unborn child), Edward, James, Louise THEN Anne & her offspring.

IJumpedAboardAPirateShip · 18/11/2020 19:50

See I don’t think Anne would be the next in line, because she is female, Andrew and Edward and their DC would come before her. The rules only changed when Kate was pregnant with George in case he was a girl but I don’t think they apply retroactively.
You’re probably right. More’s the pity

lyralalala · 18/11/2020 19:50

[quote MrsToothyBitch]@lyralalala - it would be Queen Mother not King Mother because if a Queen Consort is mother to a King and is still alive when he ascends the throne, she becomes a QUEEN mother based on HER extant title, not the sex of her child.

If the son of a reigning queen becomes king, it means mummy dear has snuffed it.
If Philip outlives the Queen, he was never king so can't be a "king father" and has a title in his own right anyway- Duke of Ed.[/quote]
I didn't say anything about why she'd be Queen Mother, just said that she'd never have King in her title because it's male...

MrsToothyBitch · 18/11/2020 19:51

@IJumpedAboardAPirateShip he might be able to abdicate for himself or on behalf of his line depending on situation. I know a couple of royals in recent years- most recently the previous Emperor of Japan, I think, have abdicated for their DC to take over due to age.

Abdicating for yourself & your line ended the rule of the Romanovs - Nicky abdicated for himself & Tsarevitch Alexi and declared
an end to it all (I think the Pauline Laws and y'know, angry murderous Bolsheviks stopped anyone else really trying to be Tsar, too) and I'm pretty sure the last Habsburg emperor abdicated on behalf of his DC as well as himself to end the whole shebang.

Smallsteps88 · 18/11/2020 19:52

@WitchesSpelleas

The rules only changed when Kate was pregnant with George in case he was a girl but I don’t think they apply retroactively.

They don't - line is Charles, William, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry, Archie, Andrew, Beatrice, Eugenie, (Eugenie's unborn child), Edward, James, Louise THEN Anne & her offspring.

Thank you, as I thought.
ThePinkGuitar · 18/11/2020 19:53

William and Kate are hardly work shy!
Poor kate was being paraded around in front cameras within hours of giving birth - don’t tell me that’s her choice that is her work plain and simple might not look like traditional work to us but her being in the public eye, raising profile of the royal family, generating attention and cash for this country is her life’s work.
I was fortunate enough to meet William and Kate at work they were opening a new development for us huge numbers came to see them. They spent hours and hours talking to crowds that had come to have a glimpse of them. It barely made the local news never mind national so I would bet there’s lots of projects and work they are involved in that we don’t consider.

RustyBear · 18/11/2020 19:56

Can someone clarify for me that if Charles were to abdicate, doesn’t that remove his line of succession? So William and George would be out of the running. It would have to go to one of his siblings? Andrew???

No, the Act of Parliament in Edward VIII's case specified that he was abdicating for himself and his heirs (because they didn't want any child of Wallis's potentially claiming the throne). But Charles, if he wanted could abdicate in favour of William, as has happened with the last three monarchs in the Netherlands, all of whom have voluntarily passed the throne to their eldest child and retired.

It could not be said to be against the Constitution for Charles to abdicate, because Britain doesn't have a written Constitution, only one of tradition, precedent and consent of both Parliament and the Sovereign (and mainly Parliament) Parliament has made and unmade Kings before, with or without their consent, and could do so again.
Interesting in this context is Mike Bartlett's play & film King Charles III - I won't spoil it, but it's worth a watch for anyone interested.

PrincessNutNut · 18/11/2020 19:57

[quote Whenwemeet]**@PrincessNutNut* But they are not one dimensional people who should be defined forever by this one thing, especially as it has since become as clear as day that Charles and Diana were never truly in love (though her innocence was exploited - that's awful) and he and Camilla have been in love for nearly 50 years.*

She still had a choice as to whether to engage in an affair or not. She could have said to him divorce diana (not unheard of in the royal family) and then we will be together. I think it says a lot about her character that she was happy to have an affair with a married man of young sons and knowing his wife. It takes a special kind of person to do that in my view - and not a good one.

And again I highly doubt many posters here would be saying of the OW that they ‘shouldn’t be defined’ by getting involved with a married man![/quote]
I don't make any sweeping statements about affairs, other than that they are never "right" or honourable, but are not all the same. Not many people can be rightly defined by one thing, especially with a context as complicated as this one was.

Of course it's always better not to. But in some cases, such as this one, I don't think it changed the ultimate outcome. The marriage of Charles and Diana was not a happy one and he was in love with Camilla whatever he did. Plus, it was how many years ago now? 40 or not far off?

But this attitude is why I don't think Camila should be known by a Queen or Princess title. I don't care at all, personally, but so many people still feel so strongly about the whole thing, it's probably best to bypass that as much as possible to give them as little as they can to be offended about.

NailsNeedDoing · 18/11/2020 19:58

I’m up for Queen Camilla. If her husband ever gets to be King, then she deserves her right to be Queen. They should never have been prevented from marrying in the first place.

perfectstorm · 18/11/2020 19:59

Can someone clarify for me that if Charles were to abdicate, doesn’t that remove his line of succession? So William and George would be out of the running.

No. You can't remove someone else's right to the throne by standing aside - the line of succession is extremely clear, and you can abdicate your own, but not your child's. Those aren't your rights to hand off.

What you can do is abdicate your own and any potential future children's rights, because those people and their rights don't presently exist - that would be necessary, in order to avoid two competing lines of succession. But lots of European monarchies have parents abdicating in old age in favour of their eldest child. Quite conventional, in fact: the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain. If the Queen ever abdicates on the grounds of extreme old age, it would be in favour of Charles, too.

Re. Camilla, what she and Charles did to a naive, not very bright, atrociously educated teenager was hideous.Diana's mental health was destroyed by it, and I have huge admiration and respect for the way in which she fought back, refused to go quietly, and made them pay. They were hated, at the turn of the millenium. The public despised them, and they knew it. Diana was absolutely the mouse that roared. But she's been gone almost a quarter of a century, Camilla seems a nice woman who works very hard for women's charities (unglamorous ones, like rape aftermath care and domestic abuse), I don't think it's right to judge people by their worst choices and most unforgiveable actions short of eg murder, and so in the final analysis... it's really none of our business, anyway.

Personally I would like an end to monarchy. I think it's a crazy system for selecting a head of state and they are monstrously indulged on the tax payer's money - the claim that the Crown Estates makes us a fortune and we only give them a little back of their own money is hugely dishonest, because the Crown Estates were originally how the monarch funded all branches of the state - courts, civil service, Parliament - and wasn't personal spending money, so that money is still being used for exactly it's original purpose today, but as the monarch is a figurehead, Parliament control expenditure. They cost us far more than any other monarchy in Europe does their state. That's separate, though, from the good work most senior members of the family undoubtedly do.

I'm a republican because monarchy is just silly, as an idea. I don't have to dislike the people involved - either the idea is stupid, or it isn't. And I think Camilla seems like a very nice woman who was involved in doing something horrible a generation ago. It's time to let it go. And the concept of monarchy with it, for that matter. When the Queen goes, so should the hereditary principle.

perfectstorm · 18/11/2020 20:00

*Diana's mental health

MrsToothyBitch · 18/11/2020 20:01

@lyralalala - I'm really sorry, I misinterpreted your last sentence!

I also believe Charles is unlikely to abdicate. They just don't do it. Queen Mary taught the Queen to die in harness, I dare say Charles has been told the same. Also he's waited bloody ages.

mrscampbellblackagain · 18/11/2020 20:02

Quite agree @perfectstorm

I also think the younger royals would probably be quite happy not to royals.

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