Ban on new petrol/diesel cars by 2030 - AIBU to be excited?

[almostautumn]

The government are set to announce a ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030. As someone who lives in a polluted city (London) and worries about the effect that carbon emissions are having on my family’s health, I’m so excited by this news because I think it will really change our children’s lives for the better. And it’s fantastic that it’s only 10 years away!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54981425

@Sexnotgender

I have two Dteenagers (5ft 5in+) and a DW with a wheelchair. We can all get in a Nissan Leaf.

Any of these people in car seats? No? Thought not.

It's only a ban on new petrol cars in 2030, so you can still buy a nearly new petrol car after that date which should easily last you another 10 years. And Nissan Leafs are not the only electric or hybrid cars available today, nevermind in 20 years time.

Not going to happen and Boris will be long gone. I doubt he'll make it through next year let alone another 4 years

@Bluntness100

I think it’s ridiculous, because most of the pollution comes from lorries and vans.

These need hydrogen probably and technology a bit further behind EVs for small vehicles. I would also add if you're talking about air quality wood-burning stoves which I think should be banned in urban areas as they now make up a significant amount of the pollution.

I believe that no electric car currently is able to tow a caravan or anything else. What about farm vehicles? An electric car won't last five minutes in a muddy field. There are lots of charging points where I live unfortunately they used all the disabled spaces.

And when they introduce pay per mile because of all the money they are loosing in fuel duty no one will be saving any money :( so where’s the incentive

Nah, it'll need a level of thought and organisation that I don't believe our current government are capable of.

And manufacturers are going to have to seriously up their game with car design as I assume the plan is for 100% electric engines not hybrids with a back up petrol engine?

@daysofpearlyspencer

I believe that no electric car currently is able to tow a caravan or anything else. What about farm vehicles? An electric car won't last five minutes in a muddy field. There are lots of charging points where I live unfortunately they used all the disabled spaces.

It might surprise you that JCB are keen on hydrogen - which is being seen as a solution to industry machinery.

@Humm1ngb1rd

You can get an early Nissan Leaf 2nd hand now at an affordable price - probably not enough battery range unless commuting local but others will follow.

I just bought a five year old petrol manual Toyota Aygo for DDs to learn in and be their first car, cost GBP5k, not they could have had an EV as they need to learn in a manual for the driving test, but the cheapest five year old Leaf on used Nissan right now is GBP8.3k (and that’s without the home charge point installation). Couldn’t have got it even if I’d wanted to.

Electric cars are the perfect example of greenwashing imo.

I can't remember the exact figures but from memory transport accounts for something like 14% of all global greenhouse emissions. That's all transport including aviation, shipping, freight etc etc. Focusing on road vehicles is just bizarre to me, especially when you consider the amount of carbon that will be released to build the infrastructure needed (never actually seen a LCA, or even a mention really, of just what the impact of this will be) in addition to all the other issues highlighted in this thread.

Interestingly animal agriculture also accounts for 14% of global greenhouse emissions and all you need to do to reduce that is stop eating meat....

YANBU providing:

There's proper investment in functional affordable public transport for all the country not just London and a handful of other cities.

There's proper investment and appetite for home working where appropriate and people aren't made to go to offices daily because the bosses say so.

There's proper investment in safe cycling facilities and as a nation we knock this ridiculous culture of widespread hatred of cyclists.

They work out where all the electricity is going to come from because currently we don't have anywhere near enough.

They make electric cars far more affordable, so they're not just available to the most affluent.

Electric cars have a decent useful range of at least 3-400 miles.

There's far more car clubs so people can access an electric vehicle when they need it without having to own it.

There's probably more barriers, but they're the biggest I can think of off the top of my head.

Because otherwise a few well off people who can generally set their own working hours etc will be going about their daily business happily in their electric cars while the less affluent half of the population will be back in the Victorian era where they manage to go to work and have neither time or money for anything else.

I assume the plan is for 100% electric engines not hybrids with a back up petrol engine?

The BBC article says “some” hybrids will still be allowed - I’m not sure what that means!

@AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii

I have 3 DC one in a car seat and a husband no way a Nissan Leaf is big enough.

Then don't get a Nissan Leaf . Plenty of other electric or hybrid alternatives. Or buy a nearly new petrol car after 2030. That should keep you going until at least 2040 and your children will be adults.

Yes appreciate initial prices are still high and is why along with lack of choice for family cars that I didn't buy a family EV a couple of years ago which grated with me. Did you work out how much money you would save on petrol though? My hybrid has saved me a fortune over the lifetime and I think it's better still with EVs. New, cheaper models will follow though which is what is needed so we can all afford them.

[quote AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii]@Judashascomeintosomemoney just prices that Kia mentioned up thread as I need a biggish family car either boot room for my nursing stuff. Starts at £36,000!! No way could I afford that[/quote]
Lease it or PCP it. NHS mileage rates are 56p per mile for the first 3,500 miles and 20p thereafter. If you do 80 miles a day for a working year of 235 days that's 18,800 miles, for which you should get £5020/year or £418/month. That should be pretty close to the cost of a 20,000 mile/year for 3 years lease on a large-battery e-niro. If you charge at home overnight on an electric car economy 7 tariff you'll get about 3.5 miles for 1 electricty unit at 8p costing £430/year or £36/month.

Just checked and my nearest charge point is a 20 minutes drive (in the opposite direction of 95% of most of our journeys). There are no street lights on my road. I don’t have a drive.
I live in a fairly rural village. I drive many miles most days. I may consider a hybrid car, but an all electric vehicle would not work for our family at the moment.

Electric wouldn't be workable for me, I regularly drive from the south east to the north west for work (usually without stopping if my bladder holds) , I haven't got time to stop and charge for half an hour or wait for one of two charging points to become available. Also how do they work in traffic, after a horrific accident on the M6 traffic was stuck between junctions (mid winter so not ideal to switch off completely) then diversions put in place down back roads that could not handle the volume of traffic, cue huge slow crawling queues of vehicles for hours, a journey that usually takes me 4 hours or less took me ten hours, would I have had to charge multiple times making my journey even longer? The route I was taken to certainly didn't have charging facilities anyway.
DHs driving is more local and it actually looks like he might be transferred back to our most local office, which he used to walk to, we still need two cars as my work takes me all over the country sometimes overnight, so he needs to run around for DS, get him to childcare, pick up groceries etc and he does have to go on prison visits semi regularly, lots of which aren't easily services by public transport (or the journey takes hours longer with multiple bus changes) and public transport isn't practical for the locations I have to go to (work related sites). An electric might suit him, we also have a drive that easily fits two cars, which is fortunate. BUT we can't afford the initial extra outlay for electric, I'm not getting finance to suit Boris and we only have one child so a small second car is fine - not the case for most families

Not going to happen and Boris will be long gone. I doubt he'll make it through next year let alone another 4 years

I think it will happen, Boris or no. It's a huge win for the car industry - don't stop driving, just drive something new! Fossil fuels are on the way out for a number of reasons anyway (pollution, fuel security, depletion, etc). So, on balance, I think that in 10 years time this will pretty much doable - range of these cars, for example, will be hugely improved by then.

It certainly creates a whole host of new problems, though, beyond just where the hell you charge the thing. Battery disposal, anyone?

The vast majority of trips, both in the UK and US, are no more than 25 miles so an 80 mile range is no hardship for most people.

The rest, and it will affect millions, may have to make significant changes to the way they plan trips, particularly in the early years beforehand the charging is fully developed.

UK builds massive electric charging infrastructure ..... just as Hydrogen becomes the fuel of the future.
Electric cars are a stop gap before this becomes mainstream.

Even gas combi boilers are going to be made hydrogen ready & germany has put into use hydrogen trains.

For the benefit of the people who asked “so where’s all this electricity going to come from then?” I know you didn’t really want an answer but here it is. As a PP upthread mentioned about 40% of it is fossil fuels - almost all gas, virtually no coal. But the key is the direction of travel - renewables have increased massively in the space of two years to replace coal. It’s honestly amazing.

However we’re probably reaching the limit of the amount we can comfortably produce from an intermittent supply like offshore wind.

Electric vehicles (whether battery or hydrogen powered) along with a smart grid go hand in hand with the offshore wind increases - each is the solution to a flaw in the other.

@Bionicname

Caveat - I am no engineer and maybe this idea is perfectly ridiculous - but I have been wondering if a lot of the charging problems couldn’t be resolved by building the batteries so they can be swapped out.

So you don’t need a dedicated charging point with enough space to park a car, you just take out the battery pack and plug it into a socket. If you need it, you could have 2 packs to swap between so one is always fully charged.

Tesla tried this in California and Renault tried it in Israel. Turned out there was no demand. People much preferred to own their battery and charge it themselves.

It won't be happening in ten years. We don't have the infrastructure in place. This is just political scoring for brownie points from Boris to please Biden and grease the wheels of progress, as well as please the woke / environmentally aware Carrie, whose managed to wedge herself into a position of power as Boris' puppet master. Should have seen that one coming.

I'm also not sure why everyone is insisting that BEVs all need a range of 3-400miles +

Everyone is perfectly happy to accept that their smartphones need plugging in every night for the benefits that having a smartphone brings, and some people that really hammer them happily have worked out ways of charging them through the day if needed.

Electric cars are no different in concept to that. 90% + of the use scenarios will be met by home, workplace or destination charging once or twice a week, and most of the rest by nightly charging , only a few people will be needing motorway stops for mid-journey charging, and probably only for rare journeys like holidays.

For people worried about battery life this article is 4 years old and battery technology is improving all the time. This bloke is driving a Tesla but no reason to think that this won’t be the case in cheaper cars. Someone buying a new Renault Zoe 40 today can be someone’s cheap second hand car in 5+ years time. We have a now 5 year old Zoe with a smaller battery than the 40 that I use for work and only ever charge at home. We also have a newer electric car with a bigger battery. Prior to getting that we have taken the Zoe on holiday in France and Holland with no significant issues.

electrek.co/2016/08/16/first-tesla-taxi-in-america-after-100000-miles-why-every-taxi-driver-should-consider-going-electric/

@Winterwoollies

It is ludicrous and hopefully will not happen. Also, the carbon footprint involved in producing an electric car is obscene.

Actually that's not actually true especially these days. It's been shown many many times not to be the case and is more about fake news and scaremongering than truth.