Ban on new petrol/diesel cars by 2030 - AIBU to be excited?

[almostautumn]

The government are set to announce a ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030. As someone who lives in a polluted city (London) and worries about the effect that carbon emissions are having on my family’s health, I’m so excited by this news because I think it will really change our children’s lives for the better. And it’s fantastic that it’s only 10 years away!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54981425

@Macncheeseballs

These are the type that are easy to wheel over

My dad felt every small bump in his wheelchair. Every bump caused pain. It’s not acceptable to treat the pavement as an extension of your personal property for your own convenience

Pavements are for storing cars, not trailing electric cables

I was searching for something about how children are suffering for electric cars. Found this and no apologies for it being a DM article - the info is available elsewhere as well www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8971539/As-Boris-Johnson-aims-new-cars-electric-2030-Congolese-miners-risk-lives-cobalt.html

At some point in the 1980s they dug up every single pavement in our town so that could run a cable television cable into every house.

If they can do that for telly, they can do the same for electric vehicle charging, and embed sockets into the kerbstones all the way up the street.

@ivykaty44

@jimmyhill there are still huge swathes of the country that do not have cable as it isn't profitable so that is a really good example of what the problems will be

Paving slabs made with grooves along the underside to allow cables to be run under pavements? There is still the problem of running the cable out of the house and into the pavement, will require some excavation, no idea how that would work. There would be vast expense as well and it would be just a small part of a piecemeal operation as it wouldn’t work unless the car can be parked just outside not down the street.
Collecting and leaving communal EVs at charging points - I think there would be problems with upkeep in the (hopefully) post covid world as unless they are checked after every outing, they may meet the same fate as telephone kiosks that are unofficial public toilets and accidents do happen as with taxis. As well as the obvious getting heavy bags of shopping back from the charging point, unless you drop them off at home first and drive back to the charging point involving extra mileage and time, which all adds up.

Limafoxtrot, just to be clear, it's not me who is charging an electric car outside my house

zero emissions aircraft in the air by 2035 They've been around for decades - they are called gliders!

Petrol cars can easily last 20 years if serviced regularly and driven sensibly. Can't beat Bwlch, but dh's car was built in 1968, so is 52, and will give him many more years of driving.

It's sadly not guaranteed to happen. The government have plucked a date out of the air that sounds nice and far away.

@Sandinyourshoes

Paving slabs made with grooves along the underside to allow cables to be run under pavements? There is still the problem of running the cable out of the house and into the pavement, will require some excavation, no idea how that would work. There would be vast expense as well and it would be just a small part of a piecemeal operation as it wouldn’t work unless the car can be parked just outside not down the street. Collecting and leaving communal EVs at charging points - I think there would be problems with upkeep in the (hopefully) post covid world as unless they are checked after every outing, they may meet the same fate as telephone kiosks that are unofficial public toilets and accidents do happen as with taxis. As well as the obvious getting heavy bags of shopping back from the charging point, unless you drop them off at home first and drive back to the charging point involving extra mileage and time, which all adds up.

I'm in a fairly ordinary part of West London, where charging points are all over the place, on our regular sidestreets. Certainly not enough for a lot more cars, but there's been no problems with vandalism, etc. If you were coming to visit me, i could be confident you'd find an unused charging point.

I've been in a friend's Tesla when we've stopped to top up at one of their superfast charging stations, which are in quiet corners of service stations, and no problems there, either.

No infrastructure and real standards at the moment. How will the govt get the fuel duty back? They will put a tariff on the charging and/or charge for road use

there are still huge swathes of the country that do not have cable as it isn't profitable so that is a really good example of what the problems will be

Will be a much greater incentive to install EV vehicle charging points though.

My point was that digging up pavements and running cable is pretty trivial if it can be done for something as thoroughly unnecessary as cable television.

Some of the cost of this may also be borne by homeowners. Imagine: it's 2035, petrol cars are disappearing from the roads, and you're trying to sell your home. People are filtering their Rightmove searches by "EV charging point". You choose whether it's worth £??? to get one installed. If you don't, your buyers haggle you down on the basis that they'll have to install one.

Market forces will solve this problem.

Tbh it’s going to be easier to have an electric scooter or bike & far cheap and easier to use. An electric car for distance to far for the other electrical devises that are easier in a car or for more people.
Popping to the shops on a electric bike, no parking issues, Chuck everything in the back panniers and larger shops get delivered

Ah yes I look forward to scootering along the M4 to work in the rain

How will the govt get the fuel duty back? They will put a tariff on the charging and/or charge for road use.

thedriven.io/2020/11/21/shameful-victoria-follows-south-australia-and-imposes-electric-car-road-tax/amp/

jimmyhill I’d consider M4 to be distance driving and take a car for such a journey, that’s what I suggested in my post. You’d be pretty stupid to take a scooter on a major road for a long distance but if you’re trying to prove a point that its all or nothing, do you never walk anywhere Do you drive everywhere

Bwlch Isn’t the uk government bring in a pay per mile for cars of any fuel www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1360644/aa-president-rishi-sunak-pay-per-mile-road-pricing-uk-tax

Dammit, I was hoping I had twenty years left to get my dream car. Now I've only got ten.

It'd be a nightmare for where I live, our "village" is a collection of about 30 houses along a main A-road and a couple of minor roads leading off to other hamlets. Most of the village isn't even pavemented, with front doors and walls butting the road edge so people just leave their cars along the main road, or down whichever side road they can find a spot in! We have no public transport (one bus a week and it's a request stop), we don't even have mobile phone signal or decent internet!

Im so glad this wont happen in Aus
It would be political suicide and they know it. We love our diesel 4x4 here. 5 of the top 10 selling cars in Aus are 4x4 and diesel

How will the govt get the fuel duty back? They will put a tariff on the charging and/or charge for road use.

Yeah cos even an EV uses the road and what not so why shouldnt they also pay into the up keeps? The EV car will still cause wear and tear on roads, the driver still reads the same road signs, all that.
EV users want ability and places to charge? That costs money, why should petrol car users be the only ones to pay especially if they wont use it.
There is actually little to no push back on these proposals by SA and Vic.

Yeah cos even an EV uses the road and what not so why shouldnt they also pay into the up keeps?

In the U.K. council tax paid by householder pays for the upkeep of the roads, regardless of whether you drive walk or cycle. Government pays for motorways and fuel duty doesn’t come close to covering the costs of roads as duty has been frozen for 8 years & didn’t cover it back then either , ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/when-will-drivers-start-paying-the-full-costs-of-motoring/

[quote ivykaty44]Bwlch Isn’t the uk government bring in a pay per mile for cars of any fuel www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1360644/aa-president-rishi-sunak-pay-per-mile-road-pricing-uk-tax[/quote]
"Road pricing" has regularly been proposed. But invariably in the context of a highly intrusive and exploitative scheme, that tracks every car in Britain constantly and slaps "premium" rates at rush hour when the low-paid have little choice but to travel. Unsurprisingly such an idea is deeply unpopular.

But that is not necessary. A tax on total miles covered could be applied without all the snooping, and that might be more tolerated.

Perhaps "pay per mile" is the real reason for all those "smart" motorways with their gantries and cameras.

Unfair to do pay per mile in remote areas where there are no alternatives, but far more logical on motorways in and around major cities where public transport alternatives are in place.

@safariboot where is your evidence that this scheme would hurt the pockets of the low paid? Where is your evidence that the low paid work in the majority further than 5 miles away and couldn't swap to alternative modes of transport which would reduce their outgoings on a lower wage therefore increasing there disposable income?

There will always be anecdotes

The carer that looked after my father realised that running a car was costing her to work as the claims for milage were not covering the outlay of owning a second car so she switched to a bike, the calls she had where all within half to 3/4 a mile of each other and she was able to reach the clients quicker, not have to worry about parking in terraced streets without any spaces, added to which she lost 2 stone, reduced her outgoings and had more deposable income as they sold the second car and just relied on one car as a family.

Unfair to do pay per mile in remote areas where there are no alternatives,

It's effectively what we have at the moment. It you live in remote areas, you travel more miles and use more petrol. You pay tax to the tune of around £3.70 on every gallon you buy.