Would you say/do anything about benefit fraud?

[Lucidas]

Disclaimer: anything I know about this person's financial situation comes from information they have shared with me directly (not speculation).

I have a family member who has been running a business for four years without declaring it as income - about £800-1000 a month, so below the tax threshold I think. Her partner has relatively low wages, so they claim a substantial amount in tax credits each month. She's told me and other family members that she has no intention to declare her earnings because their overall income would drop significantly. And because of various other justifications (it's nothing compared to corporate tax avoidance etc). Her partner works the occasional cash in hand weekend job, but it's not as sustained as this. They have six children.

They're not in a financially difficult situation. Partly because they haven't had a mortgage/rent to pay for the last decade, they've been able to put aside about 50k in savings which they've used to buy a larger house for their family, with extension planned etc. They're not wealthy, but they're certainly not struggling.

What would you do? Upfront, I have no intention of reporting this, sabotaging the family relationship or just making things difficult for her children. But I'd like to know what the real risks are of actually being caught by HMRC, and the implications. If so I would seriously warn her of it (although she is incredibly stubborn and probably wouldn't listen). Or would you just stay out of it completely?

@PhilCornwall1

That family are supporting six children as best they can, I’d let them get on with it.

It was their choice to have six kids. If they have to commit fraud in order to afford to live, they obviously can't afford to have six kids.

Coat and cloth springs to mind.

Their contraception probably failed six times 🙄

This phrase ‘every benefit under the sun’ really is a misconception, benefits aren’t a huge amount at all, now that UC is rolled out nearly everywhere it’s one benefit and it’s not that much either so those who think ppl are living it up are mistaken or they have some
other source of income.

I havnt read all the responses- some are interesting!! Tax payer theft is ok depending on who you are apparently... ( that argument works in both directions btw)

Tbh- i think you are being wound up. They have a consistent paper trail. Leave them to it. They will get caught. Sadly hmrc are unlikely to prioritise this case because they are shit, but perhaps in 20 yrs time for they will get hit big. Shrug and let them get on with it. Some one would definitely have had to explain 50k cash.

@CayrolBaaaskin ah my mistake. Still don't believe they've managed to save 50 grand.

I would 100% stay out of it, it is not impacting on you and has nothing to do with you. They have children also. I am sure they are more than aware of the risks and it's upto them to deal with that not you.

"it is not impacting on you and has nothing to do with you"
Utter nonsense. Benefit fraud is theft of taxpayer money so it DOES impact all taxpayers! As such, it has everything to do with us.
I really think the UK benefits system needs a massive shake up!
The number of ppl that would look the other way to theft is shocking! Looking at big companies is all good in principle but how many ppl have actually boycotted them in protest?! All talk and no action.
I have no problem with "grassing" on anyone who breaks the law. Those that look the other way need to take a long hard look at themselves. Society is only as good as the standards we keep. If it's ok for Joan next door to steal money through the benefits system then how is that different to her sneaking a £20 out of your purse when Ur not looking?! Wonder if ppl would consider it so minor then!
And fyi I am working class. And I'm sick of ppl fleecing the system while idiots like me keep paying into it because I genuinely want better public services for everyone.
Theft is theft imo. Whether or not there's a benefits application form involved

If this couple saved £50,000 over a ten year period that works out at approximately £96.20 per week. If they ate really cheaply at home, didn't have any takeaways, meals/nights out, go on holiday, etc for those years it would be doable I imagine?

I am astounded bybthe ampuntbof people that dont care

The benefit system is supposed to be a pot that we all pay into and then any of us can take from it during temporary hard times. Unfortunately it has become a (very well paying) lifestyle choice for far too nany who completely abuse it.

Yes I would absolutely report them, it’s tax avasion. You can do it anonymously online, see www.gov.U.K. If she isn’t making a profit then she won’t have anything to worry about will she.
I imagine the posters telling you not to probably have their fingers in the pie themselves. I don’t understand why it’s acceptable to claim benefits that you are not entitled to. Either way you want to dress it up, it’s still stealing.

It’s unlikely to be tax evasion given the amount. While it’s a failure to notify, HMRC are unlikely to do much as it’s below the income tax threshold. Depends on how long it’s been going on, but likely to just get her to fill in SA returns going forward.

Obviously the family are claiming benefits to which they are not entitled. Have you tried to encourage her to stop claiming? Maybe point out the consequences, court, press reports etc?

@Suzi888

Yes I would absolutely report them, it’s tax avasion. You can do it anonymously online, see www.gov.U.K. If she isn’t making a profit then she won’t have anything to worry about will she. I imagine the posters telling you not to probably have their fingers in the pie themselves. I don’t understand why it’s acceptable to claim benefits that you are not entitled to. Either way you want to dress it up, it’s still stealing.

You heard it here first - if you wouldn't report someone, then you're definitely fleecing the system too!

I wouldn’t say anything.

Lots of people use benefits to their own advantage.

I would be reluctant to report most things, but benefit fraud to me is appalling and unfair on the thousands of genuine claimants not to mention the tax payers. So yes I probably would.

@CremeEggThief

Nope. I'd never report anyone for benefit fraud. Personally, I would only report any crime involving violence. I don't care about anything else enough.

That.

I wish people would not confide this sort of information, they really do not know to whom they are speaking!

It's not a lot of money anyway and the government sits on tons of unclaimed benefit; they also spend our taxes however they choose.

Also, more importantly, it is not your business, op.

@SerendipityJane

Every penny that is stolen through fraud is a penny that could have gone to someone deserving.

Like all the Tory party top chums, eh ?

Too right.

I always thought I'd keep well out and quiet about this type of thing. Recently someone told me how they were earning £1k per month cash in hand and getting nearly 1k per month in universal credit as well as hiding savings of nearly 50k. It really pissed me off and I'm so tempted to do something

Rates of benefit fraud are lower than e.g. tax evasion.

Of course there are some who do this, but not many and few get away with it for long.

Report if you wish.

Some of the things in the op sound a little surprising to me, like where are the 50k savings hidden, how did they get a mortgage, how have they hidden the larger mortgage/house from benefits agency?

@BefuddledPerson universal credit check very little, they go on what’s declared on the form.
Not to say people won’t get caught at some point, but benefits agencies are very busy at the moment. I don’t work in benefits anymore but when I did we used to receive notification of the interest paid into an account, not the balance. When interest rates were high we caught many people out that way. I am going back years though.

Does the money She earn from the business get paid into a bank account? I’m sure the hmrc can do checks.

This is correct and HMRC also share this info with DWP. I used to work for DWP and it can be used to catch benefit thieves.

i absolutely would i pay tax their not stealing the governments money their stealing mine!

Exactly yellowcatss

Benefit fraudsters are taking money from all of us and that includes people with a disability, the poor and the sick. A complete lack of morals.

I’d say that without seeing actual physical proof, I wouldn’t report. You only have her word for the situation, so it’s entirely possible she’s misrepresenting the situation for whatever reason. In my experience, the people who actually have a decent amount of savings are the least likely to be shouting about it.

If she is fudging the system, it’s only a matter of time before she makes a stupid mistake and gets caught out.

Six kids growing up in a family of benefit thieves thinking this is normal behaviour. What will their lives be like?

I wonder how many of the ‘report them’ ppl are as moralistic in their voting choices 🤔

@WitsEnding

Six kids growing up in a family of benefit thieves thinking this is normal behaviour. What will their lives be like?

I doubt the kids have ever thought about where the money comes from.....

They probably won’t be the most motivated to go and get jobs though.