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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you say/do anything about benefit fraud?

125 replies

Lucidas · 17/11/2020 10:23

Disclaimer: anything I know about this person's financial situation comes from information they have shared with me directly (not speculation).

I have a family member who has been running a business for four years without declaring it as income - about £800-1000 a month, so below the tax threshold I think. Her partner has relatively low wages, so they claim a substantial amount in tax credits each month. She's told me and other family members that she has no intention to declare her earnings because their overall income would drop significantly. And because of various other justifications (it's nothing compared to corporate tax avoidance etc). Her partner works the occasional cash in hand weekend job, but it's not as sustained as this. They have six children.

They're not in a financially difficult situation. Partly because they haven't had a mortgage/rent to pay for the last decade, they've been able to put aside about 50k in savings which they've used to buy a larger house for their family, with extension planned etc. They're not wealthy, but they're certainly not struggling.

What would you do? Upfront, I have no intention of reporting this, sabotaging the family relationship or just making things difficult for her children. But I'd like to know what the real risks are of actually being caught by HMRC, and the implications. If so I would seriously warn her of it (although she is incredibly stubborn and probably wouldn't listen). Or would you just stay out of it completely?

OP posts:
TheQueef · 17/11/2020 14:57

@Crumbleandcake

No one likes a grass op.

What a fabulously working class response.

Even the word "grass" is just an immature response.

We have laws in this country that should be upheld. I object to paying into a system where people use benefits for anything other than a temporary last resort. To take them fraudulently is appalling and absolutely should be reported like any other crime.

What a fabulously cuntish slur.
Would you say/do anything about benefit fraud?
Badbadbunny · 17/11/2020 14:57

@LaurieFairyCake

I don't understand the figures here Confused

Untaxed income - £1000 per month
taxed income at minimum wage - £1400
Tax credits - MAXIMUM £800

= £3200

With 6 CHILDREN and no mortgage or rent I still don't see how they've afforded £50,000 in savings (!) plus an extension (upwards of £30,000 - even 'cheap' extensions are 50k plus)

Sounds like UTTER BOLLOCKS to me HmmHmmHmm

I really need to meet them so they can give me tips on living endlessly on fuck all...

£3200 is a lot. But no one has said the partner is on minimum wage, so he could be bringing home far more than £1400 (plus he'd doing moonlighting work too that's not being declared). Don't forget tax credits is also a gateway to other benefits such as free prescriptions etc.

Also, where do you get only £800 per month tax credits from. I've just popped the figures into the online calculator and get WTC and CTC totalling far more than that.

Adoptthisdogornot · 17/11/2020 14:59

We spend less on benefits than we do on submarines. The notion that benefit fraud is costing the nation loads of money is bollocks. Let it go.

Arielsgift · 17/11/2020 15:01

@TheQueef
Grin

Arielsgift · 17/11/2020 15:02

Anything to say yet @Crumbleandcake?

Leannethom85 · 17/11/2020 15:02

I wouldn't tell on anyone, reason being is I don't discuss money with anyone. It's not my business, if someone can play the system then good luck to them, those in charge of the country do it everyday which runs into millions in front of our faces everyday. Hmrc might wanna start at the top before going after the little people in my opinion.

user15368536798589 · 17/11/2020 15:08

Google HMRC Connect.

LaurieFairyCake · 17/11/2020 15:31

So £22k is £1700 a month

So it's £300 on top of minimum wage

I don't think it will be more than £800 child tax credits (not sure he would get working tax credits)

OP doesn't say ages of children but child benefit for only 2 now

So their LEGAL money is £2500 a month for 8 people

Plus her £800-£1000

It's really not very much for 8 people

Lucidas · 17/11/2020 15:37

@LaurieFairyCake

So £22k is £1700 a month

So it's £300 on top of minimum wage

I don't think it will be more than £800 child tax credits (not sure he would get working tax credits)

OP doesn't say ages of children but child benefit for only 2 now

So their LEGAL money is £2500 a month for 8 people

Plus her £800-£1000

It's really not very much for 8 people

It's only for 2 children if they were born after April 2017 no? Which isn't the case here. So I assume they receive child benefit for all their children.
OP posts:
CremeEggThief · 17/11/2020 17:21

Grool🤣. Believe me, nobody would dare try to steal my stash of creme eggs!👊😜

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 17/11/2020 19:09

I do t know why people say that benefit fraud is only a ‘tiny amount’ in the great scheme of things.

By definition, anyone can only know for certain about the fraud that’s been discovered. Given how many MNers wouldn’t dream of shopping even the most blatant fraudsters, then if they’re typical of the population at large, it’s a fair bet that what’s known about is just the tip of a whopping great iceberg.

squeekums · 17/11/2020 22:48

So you wouldn't ring the police if you saw someone breaking into your neighbour's house??

You assume id notice that.
I wouldnt AND id have no idea who they expecting at their house so if i saw a random on the property, id not call, how do i know they aint supposed to be there? I dont know their friends or family or their cars

But if they came asking if we had anything on our cameras, id happily give them the file

PandemicAtTheDisco · 17/11/2020 22:55

I've been told that it is the people that blatantly cheat on their taxes that cost this country the most. The cost of benefit fraud is a fraction of that.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 17/11/2020 23:02

So her partner has a low income, she onky earns between 800/1000 a month and they get benefits but you don't know how much that amounts to yet they have managed to put 50 grand away for a deposit for a house and have money to extend aswell. Yeah, I doubt that tbh.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 17/11/2020 23:05

It's only for 2 children if they were born after April 2017 no? Which isn't the case here. So I assume they receive child benefit for all their children.

They would receive child benefit on those incomes even if she was declaring her earnings, so not sure what thats got to do with anything. It will either be uc or tax credits they are receiving.

LoveMyKidsAndCats · 17/11/2020 23:08

My neighbour does cash in hand work and claims benefits. He is a mechanic and is fixing cars most days from his garage. You know when he has a benefit appointment as he gets his wheelchair out, which he never uses normally. I wouldn't report him though. Not effecting me.

Lucidas · 17/11/2020 23:11

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

It's only for 2 children if they were born after April 2017 no? Which isn't the case here. So I assume they receive child benefit for all their children.

They would receive child benefit on those incomes even if she was declaring her earnings, so not sure what thats got to do with anything. It will either be uc or tax credits they are receiving.

The child benefit point isn’t to do with any kind of fraud, but with the question of how they built up savings on their income alone. She’s the one any told me it goes into a separate account and they barely spent any of it ever since they started receiving it 15 years ago. So yes, it makes absolute sense that that will amount to a substantial amount.

There is zero incentive for me to make any of this up but whatever.

OP posts:
SBTLove · 17/11/2020 23:12

So a couple on one low wage and tax credits have managed to save £50k and buy a bigger house? that’s amazing, what bank was this out mortgages and not questioning where their £50k deposit came from?
Yous kind jealous, keep your nose out, their Tax Credits aren’t actually that much.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 17/11/2020 23:14

Well I'm in Scotland and you can't claim benefits if you have more that 6 grand savings, so someone is talking bullshit.

Lucidas · 17/11/2020 23:18

@SBTLove

So a couple on one low wage and tax credits have managed to save £50k and buy a bigger house? that’s amazing, what bank was this out mortgages and not questioning where their £50k deposit came from? Yous kind jealous, keep your nose out, their Tax Credits aren’t actually that much.
Err no, I just don’t want the shit to hit the fan on my family.

Someone tells you “yeah I know what we’re doing is technically wrong/illegal but I’m still not declaring my income” and people here still say “it’s ok sweetie you’re doing great...”. I already said I had no intention of reporting them.

The bank statements were those given during lockdown when her business income was minimal (again, from what she said).

OP posts:
Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 17/11/2020 23:24

Why would shit hit the fan on your family Confused

ISpeakBecauseICan · 17/11/2020 23:28

I reported a neighbour for benefit fraud. I overheard her bragging about how she was working and still claiming benefits Hmm

diamond4u · 17/11/2020 23:30

Don't think anything even gets done when you do report them.

I knew someone, single mum, lives with family rent free, the only outgoing payment was £9 for her mobile bill, getting all the benefits under the sun, and working cash in hand, that she wasn't declaring, am talking she was earning 2-3k a month! And no bills to pay whatsoever. She made my life a misery and so I reported her, don't think anything was done as she continued in her ways

CayrolBaaaskin · 17/11/2020 23:33

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion - that’s not true in Scotland or elsewhere in the UK. Tax credits can be claimed regardless of savings (but not uc)

WitchesGlove · 17/11/2020 23:37

@silentpool

I am a private tenant in a small council block. 1 of the flats is empty because the people on the lease are living elsewhere, another has illegal subletters in it. I have reported this to the council more than once, as our council is one of those, shipping people in need of housing, hours away. Has anyone done anything? Nope, I suspect our council is rotten to the core, itself.
Try the local press to see if they can shake the council into doing anything.

Much of the housing crisis was caused by people abusing the system, Grenfell was full of illegal subletters!

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