What is your honest opinion of Eastern Europeans?

[tellmehowitis]

Name changed for this.
I've been in England for nearly a decade and have tried to integrate but so far the friends I have are other Eastern Europeans such as Polish, Latvian, Romanian etc. and also a few Spanish, Portuguese, Italian.

My experiences of English people (women especially) have been as follows:
-seeming friendly and saying things like "we should go for coffee/drinks" but not actually meaning it.
-most locals already have a social circle and don't seem to want to add to it (or don't want to add me specifically).
-if friendships do develop people will at some point suddenly decide they don't like me anymore for no reason (well there obviously is a reason but they don't say what it is).
-people blank me or act condescending. A woman on a course I was on actually turned away and looked at the ceiling when I said "hi, how are you", even though the previous day we'd had a perfectly pleasant chat. I couldn't think of what I could've said to offend, it was all general small talk like where we're from and what uni we went to etc. This has happened a few times with different people.

Maybe I'm just not likeable...but then there are no problems with people of other nationalities. I think I'm "normal" and not some weirdo, I speak English, have a job and am not here to "sponge" or any of the other stereotypes.

It didn't used to bother me too much but now I'm considering my long term future...even though materially speaking I have a nice life here I'm thinking of moving back home to settle down, because feeling like an outsider takes its toll emotionally.

I'm just curious though, what is it about me that locals don't like...is it my personality specifically that doesn't fit here, or is it because of my nationality? (It was the same before Brexit, so can't blame that).
If you're EE do you have English friends? And if you're English, would you be friends with an EE person? What do you honestly think of us as a whole?

@pessimistiquerealistique

Yes thats a really good pointBaskin, the guy I live with is sort of a mid 40s polish man, he can really be intimidating if you dont know him, can seem to get really angry about things (went mad at for spilling sugar on the side then falling asleep for example) but then the next minute be really funny and nice

I think that's probably because he is bipolar or something.

Agreed. It's probably him, not the fact he's Polish. When you only know one person from a particular nationality it can be easy to put character quirks that you would recognise as such in a British person down to cultural differences - I used to live with a Ukrainian man who I found very difficult and strange and I thought it was cultural, and then I met another Ukrainian who knew him too and who was like 'oh god, you live with X, isn't he just the weirdest guy? And so rude!'.

The same thing happened to my British housemate when he moved to work in the US - the guy he was replacing was also British and the only one in their lab, and all his colleagues kept assuming that my housemate would have the same weird (and frankly antisocial) traits because they'd all assumed the previous colleague was 'typically British' in his oddness, whereas he was just a bit of dick who would have been widely recognised as such in his native land!

I think what you're describing is normal English behaviour, OP. The English behave like that to each other all the time. There are plenty of threads on here by (English) women who feel like they are being snubbed by others or find it hard to make friends.

I don't have any opinion of Eastern Europeans as a whole, because they are no doubt all different. As it happens, one of the few neighbours I've ever had lots in common with and become proper friends with was Polish. We live hundreds of miles from each other now, but still keep in touch.

I can only speak for myself (English, born in England). I have lived in various parts of the UK and it can be hard to make friends with people who live where they grew up. They tend to have a network of friends and family and probably don't see them as much as they would like so don't always have time for new friends. Imho this is why outsiders tend to end up grouping together because they are open to new friends. I know when I moved to a Welsh speaking area of Wales the couple of friends I made were also fairly new to the area... Anyway I'm sure its not you, it's them and them finding time...

I work with a lot of Eastern Europeans and to be honest i find them very blunt.

Not sure if it is language or culture. At first it is a little jarring but you get used to it and dont see it as a problem.

My very good friend at work has gone back to Poland. I miss her.

It seems pretty straightforward to me that if you go and live in another country, you want to integrate with the locals.

In my experience every one of my friends who has lived abroad has said when they left that they definitely had no interest in socialising with other expats, been a bit scathing about those who do... and they've all found themselves primarily forming friendships with people who don't come from the country they live in. As others have said, it's inherently easier to make friends with other people who don't have extensive social and family networks where you are, they're much more likely to be open to new friendships. The only exceptions I know are if they've ended up with a partner from the country they moved to, which then means much quicker and easier integration into local friendships.

OP, I posted this on another thread recently. Do you fall into any of the traps in the third column? Just to give you a sense of how much you truly understand the difference between what British people say and what they mean/are thinking...

I can't generalise. I used to know an elderly Polish Count who was so kind, funny and gentle. His Lithuanian wife was outgoing, friendly, warm, generous and very kind, as was his sister. Often think fondly of them.

I went to uni with a polish man who came here as a mature student. He latched on to me and there were many red flags. He was rude to others if they tried to speak to me, he stalked me, and I was quite intimidated by him. He sulked and left the uni when I actively tried to avoid him. I often think I had a lucky escape.

I worked with 2 Romanian women. One was a lovely person who was quite outspoken, seemed very honest and I trusted her. The other was right up the managers bum, told tales about others, was manipulative and scheming. I just think they couldn't have been more different.

I'm only 3rd generation British. Family is from Latvia. But you'd never guess. I have often said "let's do" and then failed to follow up. The British tend to be self conscious. The middle class are the worst. Upper are more confident and it doesn't occur to them you might reject an invite, so you get invited. Everyone else is probably just too exhausted holding everything together. Its not you. Oh, and did i mention the class system its a thing unfortunately, and it means the culture in the UK is not homogeneous or universal.

My experience of Eastern Europeans: cold in manners, blunt to rudeness in directness, unemotional, judgmental, care so much about materialistic and status in society, sexist, expect women to be slim, clean and look good, give men so much freedom with cheating etc as long as he gives you money, the men are huge drinkers, very strict families, may even beat or verbal punish their children, actually very racist to brown, black and asian people, arrogant, secretive and mistrustful.

Also I’m not sure my answer to your question is relevant since I’m not English, but my husband is, my ex husband was, and I’ve lived here over 20 years now and in some respects feel quite English (my husband says I’m more English than the English as my favourite part of any hotel stay is having tea in the room 😆😆), and if you were in our circle of acquaintances your nationality wouldn’t factor at all - we’d see you just the same as any other individual. If we got on well that would be the only thing that mattered.

I actually lived in EE for a while (Poland and Russia), many years ago!

I haven't met many EE people but the ones I have got to know have been nice - and very efficient and conscientious, in the case of people I've worked with or had doing work for me.

I would happily make friends with anyone from any country or part of the world, and do, though I don't have any EE friends but not because of any prejudice, just haven't met that many. But I live in a block of flats with a wide range of nationalities and we all get on. If people are talking to each other in a language I don't know, I might assume they have mates and prefer hanging out with each other IYSWIM. But if they talk to me I'll be welcoming.

*My experiences of English people (women especially) have been seeming friendly and saying things like "we should go for coffee/drinks" but not actually meaning it."

I'm English myself and I hate this! It's so confusing because sometimes they do mean it but you're meant to know when they don't. If I want to befriend someone I try to say "do you fancy going for a coffee after school drop off sometime next week" or "I'm going to this exhibition, do you want to come" and be specific.

I recognise all of your points and I am as British as they come. I agree it is typical English behaviour.

I don’t really have an opinion on Eastern European’s in general - I used to work with a Czech bloke who was really really good looking if that helps

I’m half Czech and there was a lot of prejudice when I was growing up. My F had a very obvious foreign accent (he stubbornly refused to believe this) and we also had a very obviously Eastern European surname, which led to my siblings and me facing a lot of bullying at school. It’s led to me not talking about my background now that I have a very British surname (since I got married). Although admittedly this is also because my F sexually abused my DSis and me.

This was during the Cold War so things were different then. A lot of people questioned whether my F was a Communist spy (ironically he was a dyed-in-the-wool Tory voter and my DM only felt comfortable about not voting Tory after his death).

So maybe the prejudice was down to him being an unpleasant human being, although the attitude towards our surname certainly wasn’t.

So I’ve no doubt there is still some prejudice, which is probably heightened because of Brexit. But it could be that you’re seeing things that aren’t there. Some people do just prefer to stick to their circle of friends.

Have you ever taken the initiative to arrange something? Sometimes you do have to ‘make the first move’ as it were. I know that can be difficult, as it isn’t something that I find easy to do either.

I'm british OP and have found exactly the same as you! I wonder if it's more about the british in general and not to do with your ethnicity and background. I find the british flakey, not genuinely interested in making friends for the most part, and stand offish when I suggest meetups. I consider myself friendly and not a weirdo.

I would have no hesitation in being friends with a nice eastern european person or anyone else!

What I have really found is that friendships in the UK seem to take a very long time to "brew" as it were. Coming across too eager or keen can put people off. Try to get used to saying hello to people, work up very slowly before you suggest get togethers. People seem to be more open to this method.

best of luck OP! x

It's typical of British people to say let's meet for coffee and then not follow through, it's like the 'keep in touch' messages in leaving cards - a polite social nicety that is meaningless.

I've met nice Eastern Europeans both here and in their home countries and I've met others who I wasn't bothered about one way or another - just like British people and people of all different nationalities.

Hi there, it seems like you have a lot of friends anyway, may I ask why you wish to have British friends too!

If I were living in e.g. Spain, I would very much want to have Spanish friends. You don't get to know the language or culture of the country properly unless you get to know some of its people really well imo.

Also bear in mind that English people (people of any nationality, really) feel exactly the same when they live abroad. Unless they live somewhere like Spain where there are big expat communities, they often say that it takes a long time to feel properly integrated, that it takes time to meet people, make friends and then form long lasting close friendships. It’s complex to fit into a different culture, and often takes many years to truly adapt. Most people who live in other countries, from what I’ve heard, make acquaintances through work, a few close friends (often mostly other immigrants) and find that many of the locals already have established friendship groups.

The borough I live in has one of the highest amount of Eastern Europeans in London.

As a result, I'm friends with lots of EE's and so are my DC. In fact my DH's best friend is Slovakian and DS2's friend since nursery (he's 21 now) is Lithuanian.

Yes I know some English people who tend not to want to mix with EE's for whatever reason (mostly Xenophobia) but equally I knew some EE parents at the school who wouldn't mix with the local English/Asian/African parents or encourage friendships with their children.

There was also an uncomfortable situation with groups of Romanian and Polish parents being very vocal of their hatred of one another, to the point where the police were called on more than one occasion.

But all in all I think most people rub along just fine and friendships are formed when people start to wander outside of their own friendship bubbles.

I think there are a couple of social etiquette points that can matter if you're British. As a rule those from the EE come across as blunt, which some people will take to be rude. They also tend to say what they think which again is perceived to be rude (for instance my Bulgarian cleaner kept asking me why my toddler was still in nappies and not potty trained, which I didn't care about but that would definitely offend some people).

Generally I find that people from EE smile less which can come across as unfriendly and can also come as a concern if they're working in your child's nursery or grandparents care home. It comes across like they don't care, which I'm sure they do but people want smiley people round their kids and old relatives.

How EE women dress also is different to the Boden-esque middle class mum uniform which is not a problem but then picks you out as not part of 'the set'.

At the end of the day some people are nicer and able to make allowances for these cultural differences, others won't be. Generally you'll probably find more tolerance in London.

@MedwaymumofMany

I have a Estonian friend and the mum I chat the most to at school is Chech. I don’t see them in any other light than as a individual personality.

I think I agree with the above, it’s us Brits saying things we don’t mean to be polite. Next time says let’s meet for a coffee, you say great how about next Monday straight after drop off. Then you can weed out the polite but I don’t mean it crew

One of my best friends is Estonian. She was my lodger when we were both doing our PhD's. She's back in Estonia now teaching Philosophy at the university in the city where she grew up. We're Skype-ing as I write this.

@Eskarina1

I'm incredibly culturally English. It takes me years to turn someone from an acquaintance into a friend. If I say let's meet for a coffee I mean it, but I don't know how to take that next step. It feels weird to me to then go "next Thursday at Costa?". Don't know why.

Actually, I have trouble believing people want to be my friend and I want to leave them plenty of room to politely reject me. I'm aware this actually leads to me rejecting people.

Most of my closest friends date from a period when my best friend was a Polish woman. She had none of these hang ups. My "let's meet for a coffee" was met with a "actually, you should come to my house for dinner tomorrow". Then she introduced me to so many people. Sadly, she was only in England for a year and a decade or so later we've lost touch but she changed my life.

I also struggle with the idea that people would actually want to be my friend and doubtless push them away as a result. I've never articulated it until this post!

OP, I struggle with most of the same things as you although I am culturally British, but have lived elsewhere for a lot of my life. I don't know how much comfort it is, seeing how many people say it's just the Brits, because although I guess it's nice to know it's probably not racist, it doesn't actually change the fact you're missing connections does it?

What I have really found is that friendships in the UK seem to take a very long time to "brew" as it were. Coming across too eager or keen can put people off.

That is true, for me at least. If I start to make friends with someone, and even if we're good friends, I don't want to see them all the time or be texted every day etc. But when I have had problems with people being too full-on and needy, they've been British, or in one case German. I think it's more a personality thing than a nationality thing.

As other posters have said, a lot of what you’ve experienced is just standard cultural behaviour, although the being ignored could be an ignorant, xenophobic person, or someone just having a bad day.

I was born in England and have only ever lived here, although I’ve moved around a lot, and the insular friendship groups is a thing I’ve experienced! I have family living in France, and they have experienced the same from French people. If you were at home OP, would you have friends from outside your country? I think it’s a pretty universal thing, you just don’t see it when you’re in your home culture/language.

I love languages and other places, so I love the fact that people from EE want to live here, but I have found a lot of aloof behaviour (I’ve been outright laughed at in Polish shops when I’ve tried to use Polish, but then treated completely different when I went in with my Polish housemate). What I don’t like is the pointless stereotyping - English people are lazy, English women are all ugly, England is a shit hole, etc. But I’m not sure where those opinions stem from, and whether British people are repeating and perpetuating them.

Brexit is a crying shame, and it makes me sad to think how many of the people I’ve met have been made to feel unwelcome. I genuinely believe a lot of the xenophobia comes from places where the government has neglected infrastructure and jobs, and the local people just needed someone to blame, and the opening up of the borders meant EE became convenient fall guys.

How EE women dress also is different to the Boden-esque middle class mum uniform which is not a problem but then picks you out as not part of 'the set'.

That wouldn't be a problem in my area as no-one dresses like that.

There are lots of eastern European mum s at my school. I am friends with 3. I don't invite them round much because I'm ashamed how shit my house looks in comparison to theirs 🤣🤣🤣 they are also very hospitable and I normally leave very full!

Oh! I forgot about Estonia! I have a close Estonian friend, but she's in Estonia and we met through mutual friends a while ago - so we didn't have to do the "initial approach" as such.