What is your honest opinion of Eastern Europeans?

[tellmehowitis]

Name changed for this.
I've been in England for nearly a decade and have tried to integrate but so far the friends I have are other Eastern Europeans such as Polish, Latvian, Romanian etc. and also a few Spanish, Portuguese, Italian.

My experiences of English people (women especially) have been as follows:
-seeming friendly and saying things like "we should go for coffee/drinks" but not actually meaning it.
-most locals already have a social circle and don't seem to want to add to it (or don't want to add me specifically).
-if friendships do develop people will at some point suddenly decide they don't like me anymore for no reason (well there obviously is a reason but they don't say what it is).
-people blank me or act condescending. A woman on a course I was on actually turned away and looked at the ceiling when I said "hi, how are you", even though the previous day we'd had a perfectly pleasant chat. I couldn't think of what I could've said to offend, it was all general small talk like where we're from and what uni we went to etc. This has happened a few times with different people.

Maybe I'm just not likeable...but then there are no problems with people of other nationalities. I think I'm "normal" and not some weirdo, I speak English, have a job and am not here to "sponge" or any of the other stereotypes.

It didn't used to bother me too much but now I'm considering my long term future...even though materially speaking I have a nice life here I'm thinking of moving back home to settle down, because feeling like an outsider takes its toll emotionally.

I'm just curious though, what is it about me that locals don't like...is it my personality specifically that doesn't fit here, or is it because of my nationality? (It was the same before Brexit, so can't blame that).
If you're EE do you have English friends? And if you're English, would you be friends with an EE person? What do you honestly think of us as a whole?

One of my closest friends in Polish. She's vivacious, loving and funny. She is also a strong drinker and a bit too outspoken sometimes. She finds me too cautious and rule-abiding. We love each other to bits.

My city has a long history of Polish community though. Where I am less comfortable with my own response is with the new Romany community. There are tensions due to their poor waste management and fly-tipping, shopping in big family groups and not wearing masks, the men street drinking in large groups and (and I know this is ridiculous) women going about in public wearing dressing gowns and fluffy slippers.

We had quite a sudden influx of Eastern European pupils a while back and admittedly that is my only real source of dealing with them (as in the parents).

Generalisations I might make from my experience:

-Much more blunt than typical UK counterparts.

-Very strong work ethic. Known to be be very hard workers

• Quite overtly racist. A lot of the racist incidents within the school have come from the EE pupils, "I'm not playing with you because you are black/brown/throw bombs at people".

-Don't seem to want to integrate much.

I think it can be really hard to integrate into a new culture and make good friends. I've lived overseas three times and while I made friends I often felt it was rather superficial and that I was considered a friend, but not a good friend. The one exception to that was the USA, which is an immigrant nation, so many of my friends were themselves immigrants, or their parents or grandparents where. You describe how most of your friends are fellow expats and that, in my experience, is quite normal when you move to a new country.

Having said that, there are prejudices and people do have stereotypical views of other nationalities. Poles, for instance, are seen as hard working, whereas the connotations around Romanians, Bulgarians and Albanians are unfortunately rather negative and are tainted by associations with crime and people trafficking, etc. There is also the issue of whole towns in the East Midlands becoming more or less Eastern European overnight. The impression I get is that a lot of people continue to feel a lot of resentment about that (hence Brexit), even though Eastern Europeans work hard in low paid jobs that the locals don't necessarily want. So, it's complicated!

Your written English reads as native to me, but do you have quite a strong accent? I ask because a lot of British people can be quite lazy socially if they think that the other person may not be able to fall easily into colloquial, jokey conversation or might not understand regional dialect. They think they will have to speak in a way that feels unnatural to them and can’t be bothered. They are probably wrong but, combined with the general antisocial instincts that others have described above, taking the next step and actually pursuing a friendship just seems to them to be too much like hard work so they don’t even try.

Have you ever had a British romantic partner?

I don't have an opinion, i like a person for who they are, where they are from doesn't bother me.
I will quiz people from elsewhere though about their country as i love hearing about other places, oh and their foods

I think there are a couple of different things at play here.

First, as others have said, the English have a very indirect and reserved social code that is baffling for outsiders. The book ‘Watching the English’ is fascinating for this. Any direct questions such as ‘What do you do?’ are frowned upon as too personal in favour of indirect hints.

Second, there is unfortunately - and unfairly- a status hierarchy of Europeans. French, German, Italian and Spanish are all much more readily accepted as being near-equal in status to English but Polish and Romanian less so. This is totally unjustified and unfair but I see it played out time and again in social groups at the school gates and at work.

You posted this a few months ago.
What’s the problem OP?

I have worked with lots of people from Eastern Europe and they have all been kind, hard working, funny and generous. I'm sure there are some arses like there are in any country. I think you have to be fairly open and sociable to move country and start a new life.

I consider myself a fairly kind and friendly person, but a typical Brit in that there are some subjects that people from other cultures may broach that just have cringing (particularly money related!) I can see that might come over as a bit cold.

The woman who looked at the ceiling rather than say hello was plain rude.

I can only comment of my experience as a teacher.
So, without exception, parents are friendly, supportive and very involved with their child's learning. Their children, despite the initial language barrier, are polite and (generally!) a pleasure to have in my class.
I honestly can't think of a family that haven't been lovely, I feel sad when they talk about how unwelcome some in our community make them feel.

It's interesting - the way you describe Brits was my experience of Croatians when I lived there in the mid-2000s. Most of my closest friends were also migrants - in part because our Croatian wasn't good, so it could be hard hanging out with the Croatians, becuase you either only understood 10% of what was being said, or felt bad because they were having to speak in their second language.

I felt that there was a lot of 'surface' warmth, but it was hard to build a deep friendship. I think that would have changed if I had stayed longer, and my language skills improved more. But my point being, perhaps this is a universal experience of moving somewhere 'new' - though, you also say you've been here for a long time now, so maybe Brits are just bastards.

I personally have a lot of friends from different parts of Europe, mainly met through my studies and work, and I love that diversity in my friendship group. I definitely don't have a particular love or dislike for any one nationality or region...

Yes thats a really good pointBaskin, the guy I live with is sort of a mid 40s polish man, he can really be intimidating if you dont know him, can seem to get really angry about things (went mad at for spilling sugar on the side then falling asleep for example) but then the next minute be really funny and nice

I think that's probably because he is bipolar or something.

I went to a Catholic school and was in class with kids who were the descendants of Polish Free Army soldiers who came here in WWII, people who had fled the Soviet invasion of Hungary and other people who had fled from the Communist regime. They and their families were lovely people andI was raised (as someone from a military family) to respect hugely the contributions made by the Polish pilots and Free Army in the war. Fast forward to now, some of my best friends are Polish and Slovakian and I love them dearly. Family orientated, hard-working, practical, no-nonsense, good sense of humour but it is like everywhere, you get good, bad and everything in between. Certainly people from Czech Republic, Poland and Slovakia don't call themselves Eastern European but Central European.

I'm not British or Eastern European but my experiences are similar to yours. It has taken me nearly 2 decades to build a friendship with an English person. Ime it's because of lack of common experiences. I find it easier to relate and talk to someone who knows what it feels like to live abroad, to get used to new culture/food/customs, speak a foreign language everyday, live far away from your family etc etc. With kids it's gotten easier to relate to the locals because we have the shared joys/troubles of parenthood.

I'm probably biassed, because two of my best friends are Polish, but honestly, I think it's a proabably an expat thing. I'm British, but have lived overseas twice (once, as an adult in a EU country) and I found it hard to make friends with actual locals, as opposed to other expats. People tend to have established networks and friendship groups and may well have hit some kind of capacity for maintaining relationships - establishing a friendship with someone new takes work and however well meaning, many people just don't need to do it. So they don't. I really don't think it's personal.

That said, the British are quite an insular bunch. Especially at the moment, obviously, Keep trying though, eventually you'll chat to the right person at the right time and you'll click. Good luck, it's hard living overseas - hope you find your tribe soon.

people dropping you/ blinking you are just strange! Don't give it too much thought- it's not you, it's them

Why would you say that? You don't know OP, maybe it is her? Nobody here can tell, but if its something that happens a lot, then it can't be everyone else and not her!

My experiences of English people (women especially) have been seeming friendly and saying things like "we should go for coffee/drinks" but not actually meaning it.

Yeah this is very British. And it is not just foreigners who get this treatment. Its seen as being polite rather than being more blunt or not friendly. Except its not really.

My foreign friends have struggled with this, but have been relieved because im apparently one of the few people who when they say this they actually mean it!

What a silly question. Substitute with Europeans/Africans/ little green men from Mars.

My EE colleagues are all great, will carry out any task given to them without winging about it and get on with it. It was very refreshing when they joined our department!

I don't think its you OP, its English people, we're a funny lot, socially we're skittish and scare easily. It's built into our conversational structures to say things like "we should go out some time" but take ages, if ever to actually do this, its not necessarily a reflection on you.

See also, "Alrgiht?" - meaning hi, how are you, I don't have to time to stop and get involved in chatting right now, but I don't want to be impolite because I'd rather die a thousand deaths than be rude.

Personally i much prefer European ways of social etiquette and actually saying what you mean. Its more blunt that the British are used to, but you know where you actually stand better!

I have always got on with foreign friends better in some respects because of this, because its so much more straightforward and uncomplicated.

I live in a diverse part of London and don't tend to find myself considering a persons nationality when I talk to them. We have Polish people in our friendship group and aside from the occasional discussion about going home for a holiday their nationality isn't something anyone thinks or talks about.

I do disagree with @Eyewhisker on the hierarchy thing, at least the order anyway. Spanish people are much less liked here than Eastern Europeans.

Theres only a few negative things I can think of; I don't feel welcome in Polish shops and that makes me sad.

Just like everyone else. Some lovely ones, some utter bellends. A standard human trait I find.

I’m Danish and live in the U.K. Here’s my perspective:

It’s very normal for people to say let’s meet up/we must have coffee sometime/let’s have dinner and then it never goes anywhere. People do this all the time between colleagues, acquaintances and vague school-gate friends, for example - it’s like a polite way of ending a conversation when you’ve not seen someone for a while &/or indicating that you quite like spending time with that person when you come across them, but it’s not really meant seriously. So you don’t need to worry that it’s personal to you.

I think it’s true that for most people they have a small circle of good friends from school/university/etc. Then they might have work friends amongst colleagues. A lot of people live near to where they grew up and already have an established group of friends. It’s not about you or your nationality, it’s just that people can realistically only manage a certain number of friends.

The people who are condescending and/or other negative things - you will get some people like this in every social circle. Ignore them. They’re twats and again, that’s on them & is not about you.

I do genuinely think that for the most part it’s nothing to do with animosity, it’s just people are wrapped up in their own lives and busy/stressed/tired or already have closer friendship groups but are quite happy to chat or have vague, more distant friendships on top of that. So it never develops beyond that.

The reason why you tend to more easily make friendships with people who are also immigrants is that they’re in the same situation as you - you’re all away from your family, friends & support circles at home, and looking to make connections here. Sometimes there are also cultural ties that mean you will instinctively understand each other better and be generally on similar wavelengths.

The only thing I would say is that people from other countries (Scandinavia included) can often sound very direct when they communicate in English. Sometimes that can cause offence when none is intended. English is a very flowery language with lots of polite terms and words and a way of speaking that softens the message of what is being said. Many other languages don’t operate that way, and broadly speaking there is also a very different culture when it comes to saying things directly and not messing about. It can come across quite rude but is usually unintended. So it might be that here and there you have said something in a way that has got people’s backs up which might be why they start pulling back. I wouldn’t worry too much about that though - just try to observe how people speak, what words they use and how they phrase things, and make an effort to parrot that to a degree.

Most of all, don’t see it as people being hostile to you as I’m quite confident it isn’t the case.

I don’t have many close friends here outside of work friends, because I’m quite introverted and tend to keep myself to myself. But the people I do make an effort with are generally nice enough and I’ve not come across any horrible people.

That’s my take on it. I’m sure others have given good advice from an English/UK perspective.

I admit they can be more blunt (based on working in Romania) but with European family, it’s normal. I find it’s only us British who use euphemism & skirting around the matter or applying platitudes to terrible behaviour or things for fear of hurting feelings or not quite knowing what to say!

I have a Estonian friend and the mum I chat the most to at school is Chech. I don’t see them in any other light than as a individual personality.

I think I agree with the above, it’s us Brits saying things we don’t mean to be polite. Next time says let’s meet for a coffee, you say great how about next Monday straight after drop off. Then you can weed out the polite but I don’t mean it crew

@CatsOutOfTheBag

Hi there, it seems like you have a lot of friends anyway, may I ask why you wish to have British friends too! I'm not trying to annoy you, I'm just asking? Friends are friends are friends. I like people who like me and vice versa, and that's all there is to it

It seems pretty straightforward to me that if you go and live in another country, you want to integrate with the locals.