What is your honest opinion of Eastern Europeans?

[tellmehowitis]

Name changed for this.
I've been in England for nearly a decade and have tried to integrate but so far the friends I have are other Eastern Europeans such as Polish, Latvian, Romanian etc. and also a few Spanish, Portuguese, Italian.

My experiences of English people (women especially) have been as follows:
-seeming friendly and saying things like "we should go for coffee/drinks" but not actually meaning it.
-most locals already have a social circle and don't seem to want to add to it (or don't want to add me specifically).
-if friendships do develop people will at some point suddenly decide they don't like me anymore for no reason (well there obviously is a reason but they don't say what it is).
-people blank me or act condescending. A woman on a course I was on actually turned away and looked at the ceiling when I said "hi, how are you", even though the previous day we'd had a perfectly pleasant chat. I couldn't think of what I could've said to offend, it was all general small talk like where we're from and what uni we went to etc. This has happened a few times with different people.

Maybe I'm just not likeable...but then there are no problems with people of other nationalities. I think I'm "normal" and not some weirdo, I speak English, have a job and am not here to "sponge" or any of the other stereotypes.

It didn't used to bother me too much but now I'm considering my long term future...even though materially speaking I have a nice life here I'm thinking of moving back home to settle down, because feeling like an outsider takes its toll emotionally.

I'm just curious though, what is it about me that locals don't like...is it my personality specifically that doesn't fit here, or is it because of my nationality? (It was the same before Brexit, so can't blame that).
If you're EE do you have English friends? And if you're English, would you be friends with an EE person? What do you honestly think of us as a whole?

Maybe I'm just not likeable...but then there are no problems with people of other nationalities.

If it's just the English you feel have a problem with you, have you considered moving to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland?

Or is your choice only between England and your homeland?

I have friends and colleagues from Poland / Bulgaria / Estonia / Romania. They strike me as hardworking, earnest and authentic. I like how they are direct in what they say - they tell me that their language and culture don’t allow for a whole lot of niceties and hollow compliments. If they don’t have something nice to say, they will remain quiet, which could be interpreted as being aloof.

They seem to be able to find their own wherever they land, and I think their strong ties to their home gives them a sense of community when they’re far away. I admire how they seem to be very close to nature - their little chats about mountains / the pine forest behind their house / the sea / rosewater immediately make me feel like I’m on holiday. They also bring back the cutest little organic home-made oils / pickles / butter / chocolates to share after their holidays.

Maybe this is generalising, but I think they are more easily bullied at the workplace because they have not had the freedom of speech and action as long as we have in UK. Sometimes they make light-hearted joke references to communism / Ottoman Empire / patriarchal hierarchy etc but I do believe they still remember clearly what ‘being ruled’ was like, and they don’t lodge complaints or speak up for themselves as readily as non-eastern European colleagues.

On the downside, they can forget to speak in English when they’re excited and with groups of fellow countrymen, and maybe someone sensitive might feel excluded. But I don’t have issue with this, I enjoy observing how they are when in their comfort zones.

Overall, I treasure the ones I have met very highly as friends and admire their work ethic. When they have said ‘let’s have coffee’ to me, they always set a date shortly after, and usually bring extra special biscuits too!

I think the issue is that British people tend to be quite reserved in the way they approach people. And the "we must meet up thing" is part of that. British people tend to be over-polite and prioritise surface diplomacy over almost everything else. For an outsider its probably irritating and hard to understand. But its not directed at you and its nothing to do with where you come from. British people do this to British people too.
100% this.
It is no lie that some people are racist and/or don't want to move out of their comfort zone and talk to someone new, but that's their problem, not yours.

I have an EE friend and I like her alot because she's hilariously blunt and her humour is dry.
My other friend that is also friends with her praised her for her refreshing ability to tell the truth without mincing her words.

Just another person to agree it's necessarily about being from Eastern Europe - people in some places can be insular.
I never realised until DP moved to my area and struggled - we are both English in England.
As for Eastern European people - like others I have had a range of experience, but have met a lot of highly educated people from EE - there is a stereotype that everyone who came here came to pick fruit or work in Starbucks and Care Homes - the people I have met are mostly highly skilled business graduates.

I joked with a former colleague from Bulgaria who had a phenomenal English vocabulary (she'd just called my decaff coffee a placebo) - I asked how she had become so proficient and she said she studied at an English Language University - I mentioend I thought her languages skills were superior to many "native" Brits and she laughed and said "I know - I hear them at the bus stop every day"

Another fella I got chatting to from Poland said he was going home as his area had been overrun with Romanians and he didn't like them.

@Hardbackwriter

It seems pretty straightforward to me that if you go and live in another country, you want to integrate with the locals.

In my experience every one of my friends who has lived abroad has said when they left that they definitely had no interest in socialising with other expats, been a bit scathing about those who do... and they've all found themselves primarily forming friendships with people who don't come from the country they live in. As others have said, it's inherently easier to make friends with other people who don't have extensive social and family networks where you are, they're much more likely to be open to new friendships. The only exceptions I know are if they've ended up with a partner from the country they moved to, which then means much quicker and easier integration into local friendships.

Thanks for replying.

I've lived in the UK since I was very young, and am white and speak very home counties English, so the fact that I'm actually an immigrant has a minimal bearing on my day-to-day interactions with the indigenous British.

On the other hand I lived in Paris for a while about a decade ago, and found it surprisingly easy to make friends with the locals, although speaking decent French certainly helped.

I think this is a mistake many immigrants make - taking it personally. The locals have their own lives and its up to us to find our own way to fit in. This is a very common immigrant experience (I have moved to multiple countries, in Asia, Caribbean, Antipodes etc) and it is really is up to you to find your way. Integration is a two way street and you will have to put yourself out there to meet people and to figure out what the local cultural expectations and quirks are, so that you fit in more easily. Not everyone will be receptive but you will find your people.

People already having a social circle and not wanting to add to it is a problem that British people face too in school playgrounds and playgroups and can be really lonely.

I used to work with a lot of Ukrainians and they were great! They had parties for everything, always with lots of food and invited everyone. They were really friendly.

There are a lot of EE in the market town where I live and quite a lot at my dcs school.
They all seem to know each other and hang around together speaking in their own language. They are not unfriendly but I'd find it hard to join in and make friends with them.

Generally speaking, I would agree with pps who say “as varied as any other group of people”

Those Eastern European people I know tend to be more direct that British people but I really like that as I struggle with people who don’t say what they mean.

My very close friend who is Polish is extremely hard working and she views this (as well as being direct) as typically polish. She speaks quite highly of the educational system under communism which is interesting. I’m told that girls and boys were treated very much as equal during that time and she never felt any “lesser” in the way that Western European girls were/ are often made to feel. This has made a difference, she thinks, and I can often see this confidence in other Eastern European women.

My experience is based on colleagues, someone working for me, a neighbour and several friends from EE. I will support pp's experiences of bluntness to the point of breathtaking rudeness (in particular, asking incredibly personal questions without having the personal relationship to warrant belief that they deserved an answer); and overt racism towards anybody not white, and a pretty arrogant belief that, as Europeans, they have more right to be in the UK than black and brown people whose families have been here for generations (and more often than not, had ancestors who were "British" by virtue of their countries being former British colonies). Which is not to say that the people I know/knew weren't perfectly pleasant people in other ways, good company, hard working etc. Unfortunately though, it is the perennial immigrant experience to be judged on the actions of others of your colour or from your country, who may not have been as lovely as you are.

I have EE friends. I’m British. Interestingly the only overt racist abuse I’ve received going about my daily life has been from EE. So while I have good friendships with some EE, I am wary more generally. But that is just based on my experience.

I can't speak for all the nationalities you mention but generally feel that they prefer their own community as a rule and aren't that fussed about engaging with people outside it. I don't judge this or perceive it negatively, it's just something I have absorbed over the last twenty years of living in a major city with a large Polish community near by.

My mother is Polish. I've always found our Polish friends and acquaintances to be very hardworking and friendly people.

In Denmark, for example, you don’t say ‘let’s have coffee’ without meaning it - you would then make a date and time to meet up.

If you are invited to someone’s home, they actually mean it, and expect you to feel comfortable accepting the invitation. It isn’t offered lightly.

One of my parents is Polish and I lived there for 8 years as an adult.

But I feel very English. I think some of the things I have noticed are;

Bluntness - we English are very polite and often don’t get straight to the point for fear of coming over rude, but this is not the case in Polish culture and can come across rude. I don’t agree that it’s the language barrier, nowadays many people speak English to an exceptionally high level abroad.

Speaking in another language in company - very uncomfortable for the people you are around if they don’t understand, even if you are just chatting to your family.

Being critical of UK culture - when I lived there people would often tell me how shit our bread was, how supermarkets were filled with ready meals, that girls were fat here, weather was terrible, we can’t behave when we drink etc. I found it very offensive! I could have said a lot about Poland having lived there for almost a decade, but I didn’t as I knew it was rude.

Gravitating towards your own - nothing wrong in my eyes! I also did this when I lived there because towards the end before I chose to move home I was home sick. But I think people viewed it as me not being interested to integrate and I feel the same the other way around especially when they don’t make the effort to speak the common language.

It’s so difficult to make yourself feel at home in a foreign land and I couldn’t do it hence why I came back to England. I bet you are absolutely lovely and perhaps none of the points I made are applicable to you. Good luck :)

I agree that it’s not a language barrier as such - it’s more about how the language is used and how it comes across.

Hi @tellmehowitis

You probably haven't done anything wrong. Some people re just unfriendly or plain unpleasant. As PP have mentioned saying you should meet up for a coffee and then then not bothering to arrange anything. I can be like this.

Also when people have established friendships they often not interested in making new friends.

However my closest friends are Bulgarian, Latvian and Belarusian. We've been friends between 7 and 14 years. One has lived with me after she split with her partner and I've stayed with her family back home.

Well, I'm American but I love them. My dad was a Silesian born to a Czech mother and German father, raised in Poland. And my Czech grandmother had roots in Poland, Hungary, and Ukraine. They seemed to follow a migratory path along the Carpathians and ended up in Silesia. So I feel very much at home with Lithuanians, Poles, etc. My first husband's father was Bulgarian. I feel very connected with Balkan/Slavic/Eastern European poeple, very 'at home' with them since some of that culture was part of my American upbringing.

I tend not to meet up with anyone for coffee these days, simply because, well, there's covid. But just the other day, my Lithuanian friend and I stood on the pavement having a good 45 minute chinwag. I joined her book club. That said, my friends here are Sri Lankan, Indian, British, West Indian, North African, Lebanese, among others. If you're a lovely, warm, easygoing spirit, I'll hang with you. That's my 'policy'.

Thinking about it, it really does take time to build friendships in this country (it's normal to me so I haven't thought about it before). I'm now very close to my DD2's BFF's mum, but we spent a long time as acquaintances arranging play dates before it was clear that we were good friends ourselves.

Sometimes you just have to give it time.

Reading this I actually think I'd like some EE friends if they were blunt, as I really like that. I struggle with the British hesitation to say what you mean, and I'm often called blunt thought I don't mean to be.

The bluntest and most shockingly rude (to British sensibilities) nationality I've experienced was Costa Rican. Discussing everyone's appearance and weight in front of them, asking mortifying personal questions, expressing horror that I wasn't married with kids by 30 and telling me I'd be an old maid! It threw me at first but then I got used to it and quite liked it!

I had Australian friends who had similar experiences of the brits. Superficially friendly but didn’t go anywhere. I was unusual and the only Brit in the group. I was a fairly recent arrival in the city too and find it hard to make friends beyond the superficial.

I have a friend from an Eastern European country and she’s more direct than most brits, but I am too.

A friend married a polish man and suggested Polish women weren’t very friendly to British women. I’ve no idea if there is a truth to this, before I get flamed, it’s not my opinion. Our neighbours are polish and I’d never assume they’d want to be friends as they have so many polish friends visiting, it’s much easier to be friends with people who speak the same language, especially if there’s a big group. Incidentally the man is friendly but the women isn’t, but then neither am I as I like my privacy.

My mother is French and I spent a lot of my childhood in France where I was subjected to abuse and hostility because I spoke with an English accent - one of the reason I left home at 18 was so I didn't have to go back there. I then worked abroad in a number of countries and faced blatant racism, especially in Austalia. Interestingly the only place I found a warm welcome and made real friends was in the US : black, white and Latino. So if you somehow feel excluded or marginalised I understand how you feel. I don't think the British are naturally rude or nasty ( unlike others I've known) but I guess we can be a tad insular. I work in the NHS with people from all around the world and get on with everybody but we don't have many EE where I am, mainly Hungarian and Russian SpR's. In fact we don't have many Europeans full stop. We did at one point but they all left, most of them were tempted by the pay and conditions offered in the US. Very few went home.

The two Eastern European people I know really well are two people I admire in my life. They are honest, hard working and caring and I hope to be life long friends.
Being honest though, if someone has a strong accent from any country that I have trouble understanding than that would affect a friendship with them.
But I think your post unfortunately just describes how the english are. I also grew up abroad and regardless of the fact my first language is english and the queen is our head of state...I don't get the English. My English friend pointed out the English have been defending their castles for centuries so they are a little more guarded than other cultures. I am happy to have English friends but my closest friends after living here for 20 years are all foreigners or people whose parents were born overseas. I think if you lower your expectations of making english friends than you won't be disappointed and if you make some thats fab. But the foreigners sometimes don't have family here and can really value friendship - there is nothing wrong in living in the UK and having foreign friends. But worth letting go that the English don't like you because you are EE - they are just hard to get to know.

I don't think I've ever made a decision about a friendship based on where they were from, I can't imagine doing that.

The only comment I can make is that the Eastern Europeans I know (who I'm friendly with but not close friends) do tend to mix mainly with other Eastern Europeans and often speak their own language in company. I don't know if that's something that a lot do, though, or just the ones I know.

I think the stereotype is more hard-working than scroungers, isn't it? But possibly keeping to themselves. But again that's a stereotype, so probably has a bit of truth to it but isn't the full picture.

I have a Slovak friend who I get on well with, we have interests in common. Things that make me about her are bluntness, and tendency to compare local things unfavourably with Slovakia which sometimes makes me feel defensive.
Things I admire are the mix of old fashioned and progressive in her culture and once, on a hot day, she bought a bottle of beer on the way back from school drop off and drank it, apparently its OK to drink beer in the morning in Slovakia if you're thirsty!
Im a Scot who felt lonely and didn't like being different in London so I kind of get what you are saying

I joked with a former colleague from Bulgaria who had a phenomenal English vocabulary (she'd just called my decaff coffee a placebo) - I asked how she had become so proficient and she said she studied at an English Language University - I mentioned I thought her languages skills were superior to many "native" Brits and she laughed and said "I know - I hear them at the bus stop every day"

Yes! My father's English was better than my own, all day long! And my former father in law, who was Bulgarian, had a degree in Linguistics from Cambridge. Your colleague jokingly referring to your decaf as a placebo reminds of something my dad would say. Such sharp humour, in every language. In general, I find most Eastern Europeans/Balkans amazingly sharp, pragmatic, hard-working, generous (extremely so), and good humoured.