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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU or would you feel coerced/controlled by this lunchtime pizza behaviour?

127 replies

Kerals26 · 15/11/2020 15:04

There is a lot of background to my question, so I’m not sure that the average Mumsnet poster would feel the same way as me, if they have not experienced control or coercion in an intimate relationship before. But I’d be interested in your perspectives.

I’ve been married to my husband for over ten years and a couple of years ago I realised that he was exhibiting coercive and controlling behaviour, usually at a lowish but very consistent level. A counsellor ‘tipped me me’ off by highlighting that his behaviour was on the coercive spectrum (in that instance he was refusing to help with the kids bedtime until I tidied up some mess HE had made in the garden). There have also been some significant instances of being made to do things that I don’t want to do, but I won’t go into that here.

Today, he moved a pizza from the bottom to top oven, taking it out of its tray and putting it on the rack directly. When I came to remove it it has melted everywhere and made a mess. I asked him why he hadn’t used a tray and he said there wasn’t one. I opened the bottom oven to show him that he actually removed the pizza from a tray. He then said he hadn’t seen it (once he couldn’t deny it). I asked why he kept doing this when I’d asked him before to use a tray. I said as he made the mess he could sort it out, and then I left the kitchen. No raised voices, no ‘having a go’ but just several questions and an expression of displeasure.

He then refused to eat lunch with the kids and I because he said I was being ‘irritable’ and he didn’t want to be around me. He used to do this a lot in the past. What worries me about this incident is a) maximising my behaviour - I honestly don’t think it was unreasonable to raise the issue with him but whenever I do something he doesn’t like he ‘maximises’ my behaviour by branding it unreasonable/irritable/flying into a rage etc. b) I felt coerced by his refusal to join lunch - he’s basically making it clear (as he has on many other occasions) that if I raise an issue with him I run the risk of him boycotting our family lunch (so next time I’m less likely to raise any issues, so as not to rock the boat). I should be clear that he doesn’t do this with every issue I raise and sometimes does take stuff on board, but he is very quick to boycott meals if I raise something before a meal. Equally if something comes up after a meal during clear up (once the kids are in bed), he threatens to leave the house to ‘remove himself from me’ (which in practice means that I end up doing the clear up by myself - so again it makes me not want to raise stuff).

So my question is, am I being unreasonable or over sensitive to feel uncomfortable/coerced/controlled by his behaviour? I feel so worn down by his behaviour over time and he’s always telling me that I’m the problem, so I now have little confidence in my own feelings and judgement. Would therefore appreciate others views.

OP posts:
Ritascornershop · 15/11/2020 17:25

I haven’t seen your other thread, but I found your post so sad I had to keep going away for a bit and reminding myself slowly how bloody awful it is to live with someone who behaves badly and then turns it back on you every single time. It’s exhausting trying to keep hold of the reality that it’s not you who has behaved badly.

That’s even without the sulking and storming out. I can’t begin to tell you how much easier it is to live without all that. Single parenting is no joke, I got no help or support from friends, family, the wider community, but it’s still a thousand times better than living like you are.

EKGEMS · 15/11/2020 17:27

@Hamm87 Hmm you're calling the OP "over critical?" Why should she clean up a cheesy mess when a grown ass adult couldn't be bothered to use a tray?And storms out when he's called out for being lazy,messy and immature?

SoulofanAggron · 15/11/2020 17:29

Absolutely YANBU.

And by not joining the family meal he was actually causing an atmosphere for your kids, too. Sad

Threatening to leave/storm off sometimes is also nasty.

And I expect the other incidences you say are present are pretty bad. Sad

You could do the Freedom Programme about domestic abuse- it'll help you recognize even more behaviors for what they are and maybe galvinize you to leave. www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/ A lot of facilitators are delivering the FP via Zoom, and it works great. You could do the course online if you can't find one. There are also a few Freedom Programme videos on YouTube. www.youtube.com/channel/UC5LKTuDSbKZtCyp-xqGeL1Q

81Byerley · 15/11/2020 17:35

What childish behaviour! If he doesn't want to eat, fine, let him go hungry, and if he threatens to leave, let him go and then lock him out.

SenselessUbiquity · 15/11/2020 17:40

OP I really think you should ltb.
There is no solution to this - my heart goes out to you.

I tried really hard to stay with my one of these. the "maximising" thing was just dementing - if I asked him to be just a tiny little bit fair about all the work and inconvenience he was completely gratuitously causing me, he behaved as if I was a screeching banshee, and used very sort of right-on therapy-ish language to describe what was happening as if by saying these things he was describing and defining reality. It did actually make me sort of mad in the end.

I'm sorry you are going through this OP. When you have got rid of him you will feel a million times better.

Kerals26 · 15/11/2020 17:45

Thank you Senseless. I am sorry you have had to live this life too; it’s soul destroying. I’m not surprised you felt mad in the end - it’s how I feel too, hence reaching out to Mumsnet to assure myself I’m not mad.

OP posts:
HallieKnight · 15/11/2020 17:47

If I were you I would have laughed and told them it's ok. We've all mindlessly taken something off a tray and moved it up instead of the whole tray by mistake. You don't need to make him feel bad about it or treat him like a child

Kerals26 · 15/11/2020 17:54

If this were all it was Hallie I of course would have don’t that. But there is much more to this and a whole pattern of coercive behaviour.

OP posts:
Eckhart · 15/11/2020 18:01

@Kerals26

I’m thinking of doing some domestic abuse counselling to get some support on this and/or finding a counsellor who is trained to spot emotional abuse

THIS THIS THIS. DO THIS! So glad to hear you say it. It will be like 'emotion gym' for you, build you up strong, and you can knock him out of the park.

You can spot emotional abuse yourself already, you know. Things he says and does that make you feel shit, those things where you think 'Am I just being silly or is he deliberately undermining me/insulting me/putting me down etc?', you can just discount the 'you being silly' bit. Just forget it. Not everybody would find all of them abusive (like the pizza one) but abuse is very subtle and nuanced. If he treats you in a way that makes you feel shit, it's abuse.

Kerals26 · 15/11/2020 18:04

Thank you Eckhart for your encouragement. I already have a referral form. Filling it in and sending it in is now tonight’s task!

OP posts:
CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans · 15/11/2020 18:08

This has gaslighting red flags all over.

nancybotwinbloom · 15/11/2020 18:09

He undone your good work, fucked it up then moaned about it when you pulled him up on it.

Nah, I couldn't live like this of he is like this consistently.

cuparfull · 15/11/2020 18:11

Your relationship has broken down. You no longer care for each other/ want to do stuff for each other/make allowances for each other/ love each other....it's all about getting even/petulance/retribution. You're not even friends anymore so what's left?
You only have children in common. Take legal advice and get out. Life's too short to waste on him.
If you need motivation, you need only consider the example his behaviour is setting for your children.
Given he's in the Police you'll at least be sure you'll get maintenance. He'll be unlikely to default.

suggestionsplease1 · 15/11/2020 18:16

It's too hard to tell from this description of the encounter if he's being controlling or not. It's the sort of scenario where the other partner can have a completely different take on things - if his take on it is that he is feeling criticised day in, day out, he may just want to remove himself from the situation because he doesn't want to feel that way any more. He may feel you are the one being controlling.

I don't think being uncertain of your own judgement is a 100% give-away that you been worn down over the years. Relationship interactions happen in that small world where there are no other real-world witnesses to the dynamic and no other appraisals; it is right to question your own thoughts, behaviours etc, whilst not being cowed into believing something that, after honest reflection, you know is not an accurate reflection of who you are.

Coming on mumsnet, speaking to a counsellor, of course the likelihood is support for the narrative that you give, that we are all likely to give - where we are the heroes of our own stories.

HallieKnight · 15/11/2020 18:19

I'm not making a judgement on anything else or him in general. Just that making a mistake and being upset and wanting alone time after being berated for it really isn't in any sort of form abusive. It's normal and human.

Maybe if he is being abusive in other ways and it's colouring your opinion of the normal things he does so as a result you're become toxic. Or if you just want to end the relationship because it's not working anymore you can, you don't need to find abuse as an excuse. It's perfectly ok to leave just because you want to

AllFanjoAndNoSnickers · 15/11/2020 18:23

@Ritascornershop

I haven’t seen your other thread, but I found your post so sad I had to keep going away for a bit and reminding myself slowly how bloody awful it is to live with someone who behaves badly and then turns it back on you every single time. It’s exhausting trying to keep hold of the reality that it’s not you who has behaved badly.

That’s even without the sulking and storming out. I can’t begin to tell you how much easier it is to live without all that. Single parenting is no joke, I got no help or support from friends, family, the wider community, but it’s still a thousand times better than living like you are.

Oh yes. Same here.
Minky37 · 15/11/2020 18:23

I’d leave him to his pathetic childish sulk tbh.
I’d also ask him when he is going to be cleaning his mess up as bacteria from the melted food will likely to be spreading all over the oven.

TheCrowsHaveEyes · 15/11/2020 18:25

I'm not sure what you want from posters. You have two threads, sharing different stories/experiences with your DH. Neither of them abusive in themselves but you say they're part of a pattern. If you're sure your DH is abusive then leave. Even if he isn't but you just don't enjoy being with him anymore, then leave. You have permission to go.

I'm very surprised a relationship counsellor taught you how to manage him rather than empowered you: to centre yourself in the relationship; to stop analysing his every action or utterance; to exert boundaries, be brave and leave.

Kerals26 · 15/11/2020 18:29

I didn’t berate him Hallie (just refreshed myself on the definition to be sure). I politely asked him by he hadn’t used a tray and asked him to clear the mess up.

OP posts:
dontdisturbmenow · 15/11/2020 18:30

It really depends on the tone of voice used. The same words can be said half pleasantly or very unpleasantly and patronising especially leaving the room afterwards.

My a OH is clueless how unpleasant his voice tone turns when he is stressed and don't understand why I then don't want to be around him.

Kerals26 · 15/11/2020 18:31

I’m surprised too. At the time I hadn’t spotted the abuse patterns and we thought he was challenging due to autism/ADHD/Aspergers traits/very difficult childhood etc. Had been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and bend over backwards to do what I could to change the dynamic.

OP posts:
MzHz · 15/11/2020 18:40

@Caselgarcia

I wouldn't bow to his threats, if he doesn't eat lunch with you, fine, eat with the kids and don't leave any for him. If he threatens to leave, fine, let him go. Don't make excuses for his behaviour in front of the kids, say 'daddy doesn't want lunch' or 'daddy wants to leave for a while as he's upset'. Don't change Your behaviour, carry on as normal. Make him change his behaviour.
This is in effect what I did

He says he’ll leave, “ok, leave your key as you go” and mean it

My ex gave me the ‘do as I tell you or I’ll leave’ and I said l Go!

I was terrified, but I had to get him away from me/son.

It took a while to get through the aftermath- therapy/freedom programme (but you already have this in place!)

And I’m not only free but after about 8 years met the most wonderful man in the world and we’re together 5 years and thick as thieves of course a new relationship isn’t always the end goal of every one, but I know he’ll have convinced you that nobody else will have you...

He never appreciated you or even bothered to get to know you- he was far too intent on destroying you and bending you to his will

There’s only better on the other side of a relationship like this, it might take courage and strength to get there, but your life will be free, it’ll be yours to decide what to do, and you have us to help you when you wobble

Get out of this relationship

You’ll be giving your dc the best example in life, never allow someone else to make you so unhappy as he’s making all of you.

MzHz · 15/11/2020 18:41

@HallieKnight

I'm not making a judgement on anything else or him in general. Just that making a mistake and being upset and wanting alone time after being berated for it really isn't in any sort of form abusive. It's normal and human.

Maybe if he is being abusive in other ways and it's colouring your opinion of the normal things he does so as a result you're become toxic. Or if you just want to end the relationship because it's not working anymore you can, you don't need to find abuse as an excuse. It's perfectly ok to leave just because you want to

He didn’t make a mistake Hallie, he did it on purpose

It’s classic abuser 101

Rabblemum · 15/11/2020 18:42

Talk to honest mates who have been witness to this behaviour. He sounds childish and a bit pathetic, I suppose you have to decide if you can put up with this nonsense or not.

My dad can behave in similar ways to your husband, he’s an oddball and emotional idiot, there is zero chance of him changing. He’s married to an emotional idiot so it works. The problem is emotional idiots think they’re “normal” and other people are below them for getting annoyed.

If this behaviour is making you feel bad leave.

Be careful of therapists, they don’t understand low level abuse and think a couple who stay together is a success when you may be happier apart.

Remember this could be abuse, you may not have any physical injuries but you may be being held back and stressed.

HunkyPunk · 15/11/2020 18:43

I know it's not all about pizza, op, but I can't get beyond why he moved the pizza from where I assume you'd put it (?), to a different oven. Why? Does he often 're-do' things that you are doing perfectly fine, so that it's done his way?

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