To send screenshot of Year 7 WhatsApp group chat encouraging knives in school.

[Sailingtelltales]

The question really is how far do secondary schools take business conducted outside of school seriously?
IABU to forward WhatsApp group chat content with Year 7s encouraging bad behaviour to the school headmistress, or just let them deal with it in their own time??

My son is 11.
Both he and his slightly older sister have had a relatively sheltered upbringing. Neither have had access to nor are interested in things like MTV type music videos, social media, bragging, showing off, pretending to be gangsters in the style of textspeak they use with friends on their phone or Xbox in-game chat, that sort of thing.

They are both appalled by other kids bad behaviour in school, and neither have ever broken the rules.
My son has become house Captain within a month of starting secondary school and has already complained that class discipline is so poor he can’t actually learn .

Not to make them sound too square, they’re otherwise normal kids, have friends, stable family life, gaming consoles, mobile phones (monitored by us with their knowledge) etc

However, having scrolled through a group WhatsApp on his phone, I’m astonished to find kids I’ve known since their infant school days, using the worst kind of language, the girls being cajoled into posting photos of their faces, girls being called whores, and that their fellow 11 year old boys in their school want to ‘ gangbang them and their Year 7 mums’ .

There’s also mention of a kid bringing his knife into school (which is being dealt with by school). But on the group chat, he’s being encouraged to do it yet again.

I know school can’t police anything outside the grounds, but should I screensave this chat and forward to the headmistress, where it’s mentioned he’ll be bringing a knife in again?

I appreciate most of this is down to my being a bit of a prude as far as the language and discussion goes on 11 year old’s WhatsApp group chats ....I had no idea ! .... and that boys this age are mostly big puffs of air.
...But we don’t live in an inner city urban gangland, we are east of England suburbia, so the issue with this kids peers encouraging him as ‘the class naughty boy’ to keep being naughty, is frustrating.

I’ve already deleted my son off this group chat but they keep adding him back onto it by changing Admin members daily, so I’m on a losing battle there.

I’ve spoken to both my kids about the topics raised in group chat and they understand why it’s wrong regarding the pressure to make girls post photos of themselves, and encouraging weapons in school.

Oh and OP, you are not labelling whole chunks of society, the dad sounds awful. Sometimes people are just awful role models for their kids, I HATE the phrase 'woke' but come on, previous posters, she was talking about a specific dad with specific behaviour. He's encouraging kids if he posts awful stuff.

Good God, I'm surprised you even needed to ask. Make sure you've screen shot it, before it 'disappears'.
Yes school will want to deal with it.

I screenshot something once on Ds1's years ago. I sent it to HoY.

I only very occasionally review Ds2's phone. This is because he's a totally different child to Ds1, confident, stands no nonsense. When there is any issue on a WhatsApp, however minor, he just leaves, he won't be doing with it.

The other mums on his football team say they wish their children were able to cope with it all like Ds2. It's his personality. Zero anxiety.

But whatever your child's personality, you need to teach them how to cope, the life skills, the friendship skills, of dealing with WhatsApp.

It makes me so very sad to see, particularly girls, so anxious about friendship groups, and the nastiness of being left out. My 2 closest friends have girls dd's. Mostly the nastiness and bitchiness is just vile. The girls in older years 15 and 16, seem to have terrible anxiety. A lot of it is 'WhatsApp friendship anxiety'. A few of them in ds1's year, self harm and cut themselves. This all pains me so much to hear of. It's so sad. So common. Don't let this happen to your child!

Nope, sorry RBKB but the OP must've thought her whole post was relevant or why even mention it?
She seems preoccupied with the pretend knife and not the disgusting misogyny in the chat, as well.

Not every year 7 WhatsApp group is vile! Ds2's football team one is the sweetest, most cutest chat EVER. Not one nasty post. Just fun and supportive. All they post is nice stuff.

I haven’t rtft - sorry (lost my glasses so difficult to properly read)

I would report to the school and in our situation did. Ours didn’t involve a knife but did involve threats of violence and bullying. The head too it incredibly seriously as it was a child safety matter.

It is obviously more complicated than that but one of the ringleaders parents was having sever MH problems and the child was seriously acting out whilst being encouraged by keyboard warriors.

I felt more than guilty, but the head assured me that it would have been more detrimental to ignore it for ALL the children involved. Bravado can accidentally go further with peer pressure.

The school should know.

Without a doubt I'd forward it!

This went on in a Whatsapp group my son was in with his primary school classmates once they all went in to year 7. The more mature children in the group left. Simple as that.

It’s nothing to do with your children being square or having modern things like gaming consoles, mobiles etc. It’s just that your children have grown up.

You can stop now OP as you have posted the real reason for your thread with your latest update. (bet you couldn't wait could you to get that in)

I’m a Head of Year and have had to deal with exactly this. Would be really grateful to a parent letting us know (although may curse the workload briefly!!). Please do it

I'm very glad you reported it.

The minimum legal age for using WhatsApp is 16. I think it's unrealistic to expect kids to wait till that age before using it but that gives an excellent opportunity that parents can and should allow early access to it on the firm condition that the child allows the parents unrestricted access to the WhatsApp account to monitor the content at all times until they are 16.

Reporting it was the right thing to do.

The father being a single dad might seem inflammatory but research does indicate the majority of knife crime in young people is amongst those from single parent families. I think there is even policy about this by the DoJ and the Centre for Social Justice. I'm not sure if it influenced your decision to report OP or whether you would have reported it either way (I hope so).

The more mature children in the group left. Simple as that

This.

Instead of monitoring and blaming WhatsApp you need to have a long hard chat with your child. Whatapps is not the problem.

Your child is actively choosing to hang out and to communicate with a toxic group of people. Your child has actively chosen to do nothing about something that he should have reported to a teacher.

And instead of congratulating myself on not being a single parent or my sm monitoring abilities, I would be more worried that my child is in an exceptionally toxic friendship group (And tbh the other kids actually sound more worrying than the kid with the knife) and couldn't/wouldn't talk to me about it.

You cannot monitor your child all the time, as he get older if he choses to hang out with toxic people, he will be involved in more and more toxic situations.

I would be have a long hard chat with my child about the impact of toxic friendships and where his moral compass is at. What he could have done before it went so toxic.

Your child's moral compass is way off. That as a parent is primarily on you.

Your latest update is absolutely appalling.
I did sense a bit of a ‘I’m better than you’ tone in your opening post.

You’re absolutely disgraceful judging people for being single and unemployed.

Why don’t you be grateful for what you have op instead of judging people and putting them down for the cards they’ve been dealt?
You have no idea of their circumstances

tbh I'd say most kids on the chats egging others on are trying to be cool and enthralled to the badness and danger - it doesn't mean they're bad, they're just completely immature and not thinking of the consequences. It's understandable your son wants to be on a chat with the other children in his class - the issue is children get smart phones way too young in this country and it causes issues like this to escalate - what might have been some completely immature boasting in the playground at one time gets amplified and ramped up far too easily and quickly.

The culture that glamourises violence, gangs etc is part of the context - as is the negative way of speaking about women and getting away with it as with Trump in the USA, and some elements of music. Your school is going to have to emphasise much more other than bringing a weapon into school in addressing this.

Of course tell the school, but also see what they can do about dealing with this.

The comment on the single father was ridiculous - your kids may be 'innocent' but I feel sorry for them if they learn those kinds of attitudes at home. It's disrespectful, and lack of respect is part of the issue with these chats, so practice what you preach. It isn't about the weapons and sexual violence, it's a lack of respect for others, however that's manifested.

Completely agree with Hazel. I'm a single parent and don't recognise this kind of turning a blind eye behaviour in my DS.
Not that I'm judging yours at all, OP. It sounds like things are very difficult for you atm, for you to have even asked the questions you did in your opening post.

The girls in older years 15 and 16, seem to have terrible anxiety. A lot of it is 'WhatsApp friendship anxiety'.

As a whole, the negative effects of these apps for children far, far outweigh the benefits. But parents defend them all the time, no because of their intrinsic virtue, but because they feel like they have 'no choice' in the matter, or their child will feel left out.

So so many safeguarding concerns. Your child can be sent inappropriate images, they can be pressured and bullied, exposed to all kinds of toxic language. But most of all, and even if none of those things happen, they can't really 'switch off' from the school environment, which is claustrophobic enough in itself. They won't have the self-control to turn off notifications or not check the app for a whole evening. They're not meant to - these devices are designed to be addictive and all-consuming.

I wish people would stop saying 'these apps aren't the problem, your child's self-control/ moral compass is'. No, smartphones are the problem. How many times do you hear adults say 'I can't get any enjoyment out of reading/other hobbies anymore? My attention span is short, I can't focus, I keep checking my phone'. How many teenagers - heck, how many adults - have rising anxiety levels due to social media scrolling, comparing likes and comments, but still can't tear themselves away?

These device are designed to operate this way. They're designed, with psychological input, to be addictive and unputdownable and to exploit our human weaknesses and propensity for social approval, but magnified on a pervasive scale. It's a not perfect by any means, but everyone should watch The Social Dilemma on Netflix.

Yes report it with screen shot.
You may prevent an incident and you may help build the safeguarding whole picture around some of the participants in the conversation.

@MsTSwift

Think I’d either go private or move tbh

We changed my sons first private school, a rather well known school, because there was an incident involving knives being brought into school and extortion rackets going on amongst the older boys. It strangely never made the papers and none of the boys involved were expelled. Myself and several other parents took our boys out. So....it goes on everywhere, dont kid yourselves!

MsTSwift
Think I’d either go private or move tbh
Oh of course, because there's no safeguarding issues in private schools and no bad behaviour or bullying or such like

Yes, hilarious. I went to a prestigious all girls independent school and was relentlessly bullied for being a red head who was a bit overweight. Other girls were bullied because they were nit from the right background (the old new v old money bullshit) or were swots (ie dared to be interested in earning their living rather than snaring an aristocrat).

We also had stashes of vodka, gin and whiskey hidden in our dorms. We all smoked our heads off and there were girls who knew the right people to ensure there was a steady supply of class A drugs.

Fuck knows what would have happened if we'd had social media.

Sorry for the derail OP, yes you are totally doing the right thing and good luck.

Not headmistress but the head of year should be informed.

Another vote for yes, pass it to the school.

So so many safeguarding concerns. Your child can be sent inappropriate images, they can be pressured and bullied, exposed to all kinds of toxic language.

On the other hand its very easy for such behaviour to be pulled up by the group. Toxic language/inappropriate requests can be screenshot, sent to school/police and dealt with with evidence. I know because my child has done it. Independent of me having to tell them or monitor their usage.

People can be blocked. If your child chooses to do so. It's very easy to choose who you want to communicate with and how.

Egging each other/the weakest member on to behaviour they know to be wrong. That's really worrying behaviour. And thats exactly what they were doing. When they learn that such behaviour can be got away with easier away from the apps, with less paper trail, real life then it becomes a much more dangerous group.

That to me is much more of a concern than any theoretical impact on attention span.

Not just the knife but the disgusting posts in relation to girls, they have a real problem there!

I have two in Y7, I count my lucky stars they are a relatively immature year group at the moment (especially my two).

I would absolutely report to the school. I can’t say for certain but I think our school would treat it very seriously. They had a police officer come and talk to the year group when someone brought in those Chinese bangers a few weeks ago.