To be shocked Ariana Grande is White

[IslandGyal]

I’ve just discovered the new trend of ‘blackfishing’ whereby white celebrities and models try and appear racially ambiguous.

I think it’s more common in the states. However one of the most common examples is Ariana Grande who seems to have almost changed races.

See the picture in this article: medium.com/@abbs664/ariana-grande-blackfishing-d42a8cb726ea

Is anyone else kinda shocked that Grande is a white Italian.

I always assumed she was Latin American or mixed race black. It’s also quite problematic that she appears to tone down her look when it suits by appearing lighter on vogue.

Aibu

@TheCrowsHaveEyes

As such a Sicilian is situated higher on the racial hierarchy and will not face racism in the way an Iranian may well, once both heritages are known.’ Whose racial hierarchy? This is part of the problem. There is an assumption that everyone comes from a white western US-dominated perspective. And there is such latent and inherent racism in assuming that is the main global cultural hierarchy. It's as though racism has been redrawn by undergrad students who haven't ever ventured out of the west. It's as embarrassing as it is pervasive. And it's undoing all the fantastic work that's already been achieved to challenge that western US hegemony.

The white supremacist racial hierarchy is global.

With all due respect. Whether some Sicilian you know is dark is not relevant

Try a bit more respect. Its not about some sicilian I know, ffs. It's that Sicilians in particular have a history of north african and arabic admixture that hugely influences their current genetic makeup. Many Sicilians "pass" for mixed race because they have genes from other races, ffs.
Embarassed for you that I have to explain this

Also, while I can see how cultural appropriation is an issue, particular when it comes to traditional black women's hairstyles, it is a bit problematic if you apply that to hair extensions. Expensive hair extensions are generally taken from South American or Indian women (a trade which can itself be exploitative) or, in the case of lighter hair colours, Eastern europeans. Whilst I understand why this is popular in African American communities due to prejudice towards their natural hair textures, it still seems a bit odd to suggest that, the hair from, for example, a woman in bangladesh, can be worn by an African american woman but not an Italian woman.

exploits black culture.
er.....
Isn't it a bit late for this?
Elvis, The Stones, Led Zep, The Police, The Average White Band, Eminem , etc etc etc etc etc etc etc this isn't new.

Italian?
She's American born to American born parents. 🤔

@yetanothernamitynamechange

It is odd in America that "hispanic/latinx" is seen as POC (and often discriminated against, I suppose because of the history of North and South America). However, actually people in South America are extemely mixed and whilst many have an indigigeonous or African background, others can be descended from/have all the characteristics of Spanish. So it isnt that suprising that Ariana, also from South European ancestry, could look "hispanic". (Im not saying that Italian and Spanish people always look the same, or even are always white, but they can often look similar). In fact there is quite a lot of North African ancestry in a lot of Italian and Spanish people due to the history.

Even North Africa is diverse with heritage coming from France, Spain, Italy, Vikings and countless other countries who invaded them.

@GoJoe2020

Can we not pretend that Ariana Grande couldn't pass for mixed race, which in the American black world at least means black Of course she could. But so could a lot of people. That doesn't mean they have done anything at all, its how they look!

You do realise that I never said she did anything wrong. I'm just trying to understand why people are 'acting' confused that anyone could be confused or make a mistake about her background.

I don't really care about AG one way or the other. She seems, if I was going to make a judgment, perfectly fine and the only thing I would find questionable is her choice of dress at Aretha Franklin's funeral. One was amused .

If it's fake tan she's taking a risk in the white trousers 😅

I mean, if an Italian woman with very long untreated hair fell on hard times, they might be able to sell that hair (not for that much) and it could be sold on at an expensive mark up in, for example, an American store. If another Italian woman unhappy with her short/damaged hair wanted to buy it would that be cultural appropriation? And again, I am not criticising black women for wanting to wear hair extensions, they are completely entitled to and due to prejudice may well feel preassured to. But it seems wrong to suggest that they should be the only people that can.

I am absolutely stunned that people don’t have a problem with this.

Black fishing is a thing, white women plumping their lips and their butts, fake tanning to a ridiculous degree, braiding hair and claiming racial ambiguity. These are things that black women have been mocked and reviled for for centuries, but white women do it and it’s considered ok?!

I get you OP and I agree. Ariana hasn’t ever claimed she’s Latina but her name and her look (maybe her sound? Not sure) clearly emulate a particular ethnicity that she doesn’t deny (she’s not Italian either. She’s American with at best second generation immigrant parents). Victorious was a Disney Channel programme for three years, I don’t think it’s wrong to say most people won’t know about that?!

@Comefromaway I think 7 years after the programme ended that’s an excuse not a reason .

@canigooutyet True - in fact race is something which tends to be harder to define clearly the more closely you look at it. It is in part at least a racial/historical construct. Which does not mean it isnt real or have avery real impact on peoples lives. Money is a completely social construct but I cant self identify as rich and expect to get far. So I completely get why we need to talk about racism and cultural appropriation etc. It just isnt as simple as its sometimes made out to be - and while racism (and to an extent white supremacy) are a global problemthat doesnt mean it looks the same everywhere - and Americans sometimes assume it does.

I dislike blackfishing, it’s trying to gain all the ‘goodness’ of a race or culture without having to put up with all the day to day racist shit that; that black person has had to entail

Also if it's not fake tan(which I don't think it is because the picture has been photoshopped) what happens when she gets to her maximum tan that someone else will allow? Is she just not allowed outside again?

If it was appropriating to buy hair then cancer patients for starters would be fucked?

Isn’t there females in the Jewish community that wear wigs when out?

Male/female baldness due to age or health condition.

Never mind the entertainment business as a whole?

We’ve been wearing wigs for centuries.

She's American born to American born parents
All Americans apart from Native have genes that recently came from elsewhere. In her case, southern Italy.

I get you OP and I agree. Ariana hasn’t ever claimed she’s Latina but her name and her look (maybe her sound? Not sure) clearly emulate a particular ethnicity that she doesn’t deny (she’s not Italian either.

Is there any evidence she's changed her name or is she now being slated for the name she was given?

Wiki says it’s Ariana Grande-Butera

YABU. Southern Europeans often tan easily and she has, always looked like a tanned white ierson to me

But how far do you take it? The Moors conquered the south of Spain and held it for centuries, its likely that white people living there are not 100% white. Who knows exactly what our own ancestry is. Some of us might have racial traits for very good reasons.

Beyonce loves to dye her blonde, and this almost never gets commented on in the same way.

Jordan Lipscombe is an even more extreme example

We have also been altering our skin colours for centuries. Wasn’t there a point where the noble people looked more like clowns?

Racism exists there is no denying it.

What can be denied is the appropriation made to certain hair, make up, clothing etc. If we go down this route then everything has been appropriated in some way. For me this diluted the real issue of racism which is fundamentally about the colour of a persons skin.

As long as the clothes fit and cover up what needs to be, does it really matter who wear a Sari, Hijab or a pair of jeans (those came from cowboys btw)?

Do it really matter if the hair is theirs or not?

It speaks volumes about those who make judgements based on what they see than it does of those dressed “wrong”

Also, we live in the European mainland. My son is mixed race (one white parent, one black parent). People often assume he is Morrocan or Turkish. In fact in many cases he gets treated better once people realise he is actually half West African and half white European because where we live people hold very disriminatory views towards North Africans and Turkish immigrants. This is very wrong. It is also a clear example of racism. However, it demonstrates that while racism is a very widespread problem, you cant create a detailed scale of most oppressed and least opressed and expect it to match everywhere. My sons father probably eperiences less discrimination than his Turkish friends. In America he would probably experience more. Also one of my friends (Also West African) runs a beauty parlour where she does hair extensions - her client base includes a lot of white women because of where she works. They are supporting her small business which supports her and her family. Should the women using her business stop because an American undergrad has decided they should?

I can't be bothered to read the whole thread but this has been already covered on MN. The pictures are heavily edited. The originals are no way near as light or dark. If I can find a link I will.

I am absolutely stunned that people don’t have a problem with this.

But the two photographs shown on this thread are doctored/photoshopped photographed.

I wouldn't base my opinions on what AG is or isn't doing based on photoshopped images.

BlueBlancmange either you've mistyped or your post entirely proves my point. The fact you don't appreciate the meaning of the words you use, is exactly part of the problem.

This is an interesting article to read if you want to understand more about the issues of blackfishing, it’s quite long so I’ve cut out the most relevant bit .
www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/article/blackfishing-jessica-krug

Many Caucasian women still don’t seem to understand the ramifications of Blackfishing. Why is that so bad you ask? This is because having your entire identity built on looking racially ambiguous due to your euro-centric features and striking faux dark skin is extremely damaging to the work Blacks have put in to dismantle racial stereotypes that have hindered our advancement in this modern day society. Caucasian women who appear to be posing as black don't seem to know nor do they acknowledge the struggle that black women go through just to be accepted as who they are. The privilege that comes with monetising something that hasn't always been celebrated within other communities is unethical in itself.