To be shocked Ariana Grande is White

[IslandGyal]

I’ve just discovered the new trend of ‘blackfishing’ whereby white celebrities and models try and appear racially ambiguous.

I think it’s more common in the states. However one of the most common examples is Ariana Grande who seems to have almost changed races.

See the picture in this article: medium.com/@abbs664/ariana-grande-blackfishing-d42a8cb726ea

Is anyone else kinda shocked that Grande is a white Italian.

I always assumed she was Latin American or mixed race black. It’s also quite problematic that she appears to tone down her look when it suits by appearing lighter on vogue.

Aibu

Its actually quite refreshing to see people posting that she isn't blackfishing. The whole uproar on Instagram a few months ago about Louis Tomlinsons sister apparently "blackfishing" cause she wore fake tan got so under my skin. Who is anyone to say that someone's fake tan is too dark and they aren't able to naturally tan to that level. I'm pasty white from N.Ireland and after 2 weeks in the sun I'm so much darker than what Lottie Tomlinsons fake tan was and there were people calling her out saying white girls couldn't go that dark in the sun.

She’s always been very open about her Italian heritage.

I agree blackfishing is a problem, but I don’t think this is it. She’s not trying to pass herself off as black, nor is she taking a black woman’s place. This isn’t a Rachel Doleaz situation.

If you made assumptions about her ethnicity, that’s on you. Endless bloody Victorious/Sam and Cat repeats meant some of us didn’t have that blissful ignorance.
(God, S&C was awful)

@SimonJT

Ah, this is not the first goady thread about Arriana using fake tan, the thread about the mixed race girlfriend complaining about white people using fake tan or even getting a sun tan.

WTAF?! laughs insanely

[quote PurpleHoodie]More imported USA shite.

Racebaiting shit, and insular Americanisms.

It really, really doesn't translate very well to the UK and Ireland.

See also: ever heard of mixed-race people?

I’m half African and white, but have an ‘all year round tan’ which is considerably darker in some months. Many people assume I’m Spanish as I speak fluent Spanish. Meh to assumptions. Can’t get het up about it tbh.

@IslandGyal

I also don’t get why people are being snarky to me. I never said she was a horrible person.

I never said she was racist or anything. I said it’s problematic to me that a white person is appearing (at least to many people) as a POC.

She isn't though. It never even crossed my mind.

I think Ariana’s colouring is quite similar to more tanned pictures of Sophia Lauren. I would agree with criticisms of the Kardashians for wearing braids where black people have been reprimanded at school/ work for the same hair. However I think criticism of Ariana is about people’s assumptions about her background which she hasn’t been ambiguous about.

She looks Italian American to me.

Meant to include pictures of Sophia Loren with my post

I'm struggling to picture Rita Ora as a 'pale blond girl'. She clearly has dark features.

@user1471565182

I assume all these posters had no issue with Rachel Dolezal. She was surely 'just expermienting with fake tan'?

Not the same at all. She actively promoted herself as being of Black heritage.

White women on Mumsnet are a lost cause when it comes to nuanced discussions of racial issues OP. You have no hope of convincing many people that blackfishing is real... you’ll get a lot of people being wilfully obtuse though.

You shouldn’t judge by appearances and make assumptions

@Emmelina

I knew she was white as I’d seen her on Disney Channel when much younger. I do see what you mean, though. There is a trend to appear more ‘exotic’, perhaps.

And yet this photo, which presumably hasn’t been photoshopped, shows her looking paler at the same event.

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s not real - people are just saying that they assumed AG was Italian American and not pretending to be anything else.

@Afromeg

Tanning and bleaching are 2 sides of the same coin. One can't be okay because white people are doing it and the other bad because black people are doing it. Just saying.

Never thought of it like that at all. Interesting.

What I would say is important is the purpose behind both. The reason why people are doing it. If a Black person bleaches is it not to be more acceptable? Is it not due to colonisation that there is a perspective that white is the most beautiful and the closer the better?

Can the same be said of white people tanning?. I mean the idea of white people with a tan giving the suggestion they were peasants is practically dead and buried, surely now it means they can afford to go on holiday.

“Appropriation” has been used in the music industry for a long time well before AG, RO and anyone not RD have done/accused of.

How many black musicians for example have bleached their skin, worn blonde weaves/wigs and blue contact lenses over the decades and bust out some Ballard in an evening dress? (Okay evening dress might not have happened).

Music should be just that music. There shouldn’t be a thing such as black or white music. It doesn’t come attached to our skin colour if it did we wouldn’t have Jamaican born white Rasta reggae singers for example.

Rap isn’t a race thing. The origins started in the projects and many of those projects were/are racially inclusive.

@Haworthia

White women on Mumsnet are a lost cause when it comes to nuanced discussions of racial issues OP. You have no hope of convincing many people that blackfishing is real... you’ll get a lot of people being wilfully obtuse though.

Except some of us disagreeing with the OP are A) Not white ourselves B) Disagreeing with THIS specific example.

I have a problem with Blackfishing. Ariana Grande is not Blackfishing.

I have a HUGE problem with the OP suggesting that it’s not ok for an Italian woman to have a tan.

I don't think cultural appropriation works both ways, no. Because white people aren't generally oppressed in the Western world.
Although skin bleaching is of course problematic for its own reasons.

@KiposWonderbeasts

She’s always been very open about her Italian heritage.

I agree blackfishing is a problem, but I don’t think this is it. She’s not trying to pass herself off as black, nor is she taking a black woman’s place. This isn’t a Rachel Doleaz situation.

If you made assumptions about her ethnicity, that’s on you. Endless bloody Victorious/Sam and Cat repeats meant some of us didn’t have that blissful ignorance.
(God, S&C was awful)

You do realise that like racism blackfishing will also have a spectrum.

Because someone isn't burning a cross on the lawn (as a US example) doesn't stop them being racist and just because someone isn't saying they're black in their bio in order to be head of a regional NAACP chapter, wouldn't stop them from blackfishing.

@Greypurse

I’m half African and white, but have an ‘all year round tan’ which is considerably darker in some months. Many people assume I’m Spanish as I speak fluent Spanish. Meh to assumptions. Can’t get het up about it tbh.

there's a south african guy I work with - he tans very well!

Apparently he's quarter black (not sure how much is mixed) as I've never asked.

To me he just looks like a boy band member with a tan and typically boy bandish floppy hair. He loves topping up his tan or did by going on short trips abroad.

@canigooutyet How many black musicians for example have bleached their skin, worn blonde weaves/wigs and blue contact lenses over the decades and bust out some Ballard in an evening dress? (Okay evening dress might not have happened).

Agreed! I'm absolutely certain I haven't seen Bey having a go at the magazines lightening her skin (if you have seen her object please let me know, I just haven't).

@IslandGyal

I also don’t get why people are being snarky to me. I never said she was a horrible person.

I never said she was racist or anything. I said it’s problematic to me that a white person is appearing (at least to many people) as a POC.

When I don’t have a sun tan I’m paler than a lot of white people (fair to medium in the photo), when I have a tan I’m between brown and dark brown.

Am I white fishing in winter and black fishing in the spring/summer?

@Haworthia

White women on Mumsnet are a lost cause when it comes to nuanced discussions of racial issues OP. You have no hope of convincing many people that blackfishing is real... you’ll get a lot of people being wilfully obtuse though.

Lots of posters who don’t have a problem witn suntans or fake take aren’t white.

@Faultymain5 You genuinely believe tanning and bleaching are the same? Really? Mind = Blown!