UC, housing benefit and a partner wanting to move in

[notfromstepford]

Hello wise mumsnetters
I have a question that I'm sure someone will be able to answer. I have been trawling the internet but a lot of the advice seems to be from a few years ago.

I'll try to keep this brief.

My DSD has just been offered her first house through the council and is ecstatic. She has 1 child that is 1.5 years and is expecting her 2nd child anyday. She's not working (was a driver before COVID) so is entitled to UC, housing benefit and all the other bits and pieces she can claim.
The father of her children is somewhat unreliable, so she's done all of her applications etc as a lone parent - which she essentially is.

Now she's got a fantastic house for her and her children - he's convinced that it's absolutely fine for him to move in and make a go of it. He works. I've told her that if he moves in - it won't be for free. They will deduct housing benefit and UC from her as they will be living as a couple and he has to pay his way (rightly so) - it's not a "free" house for him to live in.

My understanding is that her benefits will be reduced but it's up to him if he is going to give her the money to cover the shortfall? Is that correct? Also as he earns between £300 - £400 a week - her benefit will be cut by around £100 a week.

Does this sound about right? Like I say I've been trawling the internet and pieced together bits and pieces from different sites, but not found anything concrete.

So she said no, he is pushing anyway and she needs "reasons" for him to listen to her?

This is not a healthy relationship, even if it was just a friendship we were looking at.

They are separated. She does not want him back. No is a full answer.

The freedom programme sounds like a very good idea. In the meantime the UC reason can buy her space maybe.

I just did a quick calculation based on the info. She would get no UC at all not housing benefit and no council tax relief. All she would be entitled to is £20.00 odd for child benefit.

He would actually have to provide for the family he has created.

Just offering my sympathies to this young woman.

So vulnerable with a (Second) baby due anyday...

It's going to be hard in the next few months and with a newborn - but she must think about the long term implications of an unreliable man - he will drag all 3 of them down.

Sounds like he’s wanting to move in, probably hoping to get his name on the tenancy, then he’ll split up with her or be so unreasonable that she can no longer stay in the house with him, and she’ll run back to you OP and he gets custody of the lovely council house.

She should grow up and smell the shit that he is. He is not good father material. Why on earth she’d have another baby with him is a mystery but she has so she should be the best role model she can be. He will not be a good one. She should build a life for herself without him.

@Brainfogmcfogface

She’d lose all of her own benefits as it’d become a joint claim.

Why is this even a question?! She doesn’t want him to move in, he can’t force her to let him, so just say no, set up child maintenance and carry on.

My god people live to talk total bollocks in here sometimes OP.. and of course offer their opinion when not asked for.

Absolutely NO ONE can say how much UC she will lose. The housing element of UC varies throughout the country . even in social housing. We also do not know any of your SD personal information with regard to her health, her caring responsibilities and her children's or partner's health.

Every single situation is different. Until last year, with one child still at school and earning £38k I was still entitled to UC - I had no idea and have worked in DWP for 32 years !

UC is designed to work best for those in work. The loss of benefit goes down at 37p/£ so unlike the old JSA which was £ for £ after first £10. So much more favourable towards earning.

Best thing for your DSD to do OP is to get on the turn2us calculator.. put in her current circumstances. Then put in circumstances with partner in the house. I would guess she will still be entitled to something. So make sure she claims for both of them so has independent access to money.

benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/AboutYou

He sounds coercive and like she's struggling to keep him at arms length. Many women in these kinds of situations will understand that! I think you and your DSD are getting a hard time on here. Help her to keep him out. Far harder to get them out once their feet are under the table.

Thanks @NettleTea
She moved out from there in to a hostel, which is where she is at the moment. Yes she has been housed very quickly. She won't give us all the details.
I've spoken to her today and given her the useful advice I've had off here.
She's feeling happier that she has something definitive to go back with.

Thanks @HmmSureJan - that's what I'm trying to do as I agree completely.

The additional thing to remember too is that a council property gives her the security that being in the private sector doesmt, and usually with rents less than the public sector. Unless she loses the house because she is forced to leave again, or there is any complaints of antisocial behaviour on his part / Domestic abuse etc. If she has to leave him again its very unlikely she would be offered a house again.

This is her security, and her children's security. This can be a home for life for her family. Its not just a rental that she would move on from maybe in a year or two (although she would be entitled to swap if she wished) Its a big deal and a big privilage. She doesnt want him messing it up for her

If ever there was an example needed as to why benefit claimants get labeled as piss takers, OP’s daughter is a case in point.

And Im speaking as someone in a housing association home that Ive been in for 12 years. I love it here, love my neighbours. wouldnt want to leave for anything. I was very grateful to have been offered my home and Id make sure there is nothing that happens that would risk me ever losing it

I thought UC was leaving people in poverty. But somebody earning £38k a year was entitled to it.

She'd have to be insane to let him move in.

@NettleTea

The additional thing to remember too is that a council property gives her the security that being in the private sector doesmt, and usually with rents less than the public sector. Unless she loses the house because she is forced to leave again, or there is any complaints of antisocial behaviour on his part / Domestic abuse etc. If she has to leave him again its very unlikely she would be offered a house again.

This is her security, and her children's security. This can be a home for life for her family. Its not just a rental that she would move on from maybe in a year or two (although she would be entitled to swap if she wished) Its a big deal and a big privilage. She doesnt want him messing it up for her

I've just told her this and it's really drilling it home that it's come from someone else and not just me.

Another angle would be that if he moves in she may get reported to SS and have their involvement...

I really hope she manages to stay strong enough. Will she be close enough to visit frequently so she feels supported?

A few have got this right but to reiterate

She gets at the moment....

Single person element
Housing element
Child/ren element
= base UC award (please look at her most recent statement for this) although this will increase when she’s added the new baby to the claim.

Then deductions are made from this = how much UC she actually gets (again look at the statement). Deductions could include paying back an advance, or other DWP debts and loans etc.

If the partner moves in they will get a couple element which is slightly more than a single person element.

His wages will also effect the award. Is he paid weekly or monthly? Please note for people paid weekly some assessment periods will have 4 paydays, other assessment periods will have 5 paydays.

His wages - 292 = the amount of wages to be off set.
Multiply this by 0.63 = what you take off the UC award.

ie £1600 - £292 = £1308
£1308 x 0.63 = £824 this is what will come off their UC award.

Child benefit is paid separately, so won’t effect her UC award, but will count towards the benefit cap. If he moves in and earns money, then the bc does not apply.

She will lose a 25% discount on her council tax if he moves in.
She needs to present him with a budget of everything house related and get him to set up a standing order to her for 50% of costs.
Off the top of my head I can think of...
Rent
Council tax
Water and sewerage
Gas
Electricity
Contents insurance
TV licence
Internet

Sounds like he's just hoping for free lodgings.

yup, being offered a council property is like being offered a golden ticket out of so many anxieties, and gives you a chance to really be able to help yourself.
She has already left him. She has done the hardest bit - she left him, found the strength to do that. She has lived in a hostel which is difficult and often where many cant cope and go back. Now she needs a fresh start.
She can speak to her midwife, they will point her to help to keep him away.
She should definately work through the freedom programme - ideally she would do this in a real group, but online is good and there may be zoom meetings she could join and get local support and encouragement.
www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/online.php

get her to have you as her 'bubble' support - then he cannot come into the house - meet only in public for child contact. Stay firm. Its not better for the children to have an abusive drunk father in the home, but if he is able to be a good father outside, then so be it.
apply for CMS - will be a good indication of whether he is happy to support his child/children. If he kicks up then thats further evidence that he wouldnt stump up what he needs to in order to run a home and support them all.

It wont be 50% he needs to come up with though will it - because if she isnt working and, due to him, isnt getting any benefits, he will have to cover ALL costs. Or be sober enough to look after the kids while she goes back to work / pay his share of the childcare

Why does she need to give him reasons? Just tell him to do one.

Inclined to think she should have worked out that he was as much use as a chocolate teapot before getting pregnant. The number of times this seems to happen with much handwringing indicates its quite common.

That said, it is what it is and she should give him the order of the boot. Sounds like a perfect fatherly relationship isn't on the cards.

Does he expect her to keep claiming and then his can live rent free whilst keeping all his wages? Sounds abusive to me and your SD could get herself in all sorts of problems if she lets him in the house - tell her not to even give him the address!

She could find that her council house lease is invalid because she lied about having a partner. She's not a single parent so should have declared his income and intention to live with her. Uc is based on the couples income so I doubt they will get anything. I would advise her to think very carefully about letting him stay and if it's going ahead she needs to tell the council and hope they don't deprioritise her, if they find out later it will be far worse