UC, housing benefit and a partner wanting to move in

[notfromstepford]

Hello wise mumsnetters
I have a question that I'm sure someone will be able to answer. I have been trawling the internet but a lot of the advice seems to be from a few years ago.

I'll try to keep this brief.

My DSD has just been offered her first house through the council and is ecstatic. She has 1 child that is 1.5 years and is expecting her 2nd child anyday. She's not working (was a driver before COVID) so is entitled to UC, housing benefit and all the other bits and pieces she can claim.
The father of her children is somewhat unreliable, so she's done all of her applications etc as a lone parent - which she essentially is.

Now she's got a fantastic house for her and her children - he's convinced that it's absolutely fine for him to move in and make a go of it. He works. I've told her that if he moves in - it won't be for free. They will deduct housing benefit and UC from her as they will be living as a couple and he has to pay his way (rightly so) - it's not a "free" house for him to live in.

My understanding is that her benefits will be reduced but it's up to him if he is going to give her the money to cover the shortfall? Is that correct? Also as he earns between £300 - £400 a week - her benefit will be cut by around £100 a week.

Does this sound about right? Like I say I've been trawling the internet and pieced together bits and pieces from different sites, but not found anything concrete.

I’m so glad I’ve spent my entire adult life working full-time and paying a fortune in tax to help people whose life plan is a council house, benefits and ‘all the other bits and pieces’ they can claim.

I’m looking forward to paying even more tax because it’s ‘fair’ that those who ‘can afford it’ (i.e. work and pay my own bills) do so.

Seriously though OP, if your daughter doesn’t want to live with this man she should tell him no. I can see why she wouldn’t want to live with an immature drinker who wants to keep his money instead of supporting his family. Is she worried that he won’t take no for an answer? Does she actually want to be with him?

She absolutely shouldn’t let him move in. You’ve said he’s unreliable. She’ll be totally dependent on him for money as her benefits will have stopped due to him. But will he see it like that and cough up the cash for her without making her feel like shit? I doubt it.

She needs to move into her lovely little house with her kids and have a happy independent life - working again when she can for her self esteem as much as to get off benefits - and keep him at arm’s length.

It’s a massive recipe for financial abuse. He clearly only wants in now she’s got this house, and wants his feet under the table while, I can confidently predict, not seeing it as his job to support his family.

Not okay and if she does that, it's fraud.

Benefits are not for someone who has a 20k wage coming in. They aren't an entitlement, they are when there is a need. She can always re-apply if he leaves.

Sorry this stuff irks me. It's wrong on so many levels.

Ps - it doesn’t bother me that taxes will pay to give her and her kids a secure home, although I’ve also worked all my life even when my kids were under 1. It gave me the power and ability to leave exh and a lot more self esteem than I’d have had otherwise!

Also she needs to tell him that the house isn’t “free”. At the moment she is getting benefits but if her circumstances change like she gets another job or moves a partner in then this will change.
If the claim and tenancy is in her name and he moves in expecting a “free” house SHE will be committing benefit fraud to enable HIM to do that. He’s obviously not even considering paying his own way.
So is she willing to risk that for him ?
I hope not.

Cross-posted. So he’s pushing to get back together now he thinks he’ll get a free house? Him moving in takes away security from the children. He would be expected to support his family and your daughter would be reliant on him doing that, which he sounds like he won’t. She can tell him no (that’s all the answer he needs) and get onto CMS to make him pay child support.

This sounds similar to my life years ago. I was naïve and was taken for a complete ride. The ex wouldn't pay bills, rents etc all of the time and I only received enough money to feed the DC. I ended up in a lot of debt and was nearly homeless. He left with no debt and then I had to fight for even a penny of maintenance.

Perhaps you could help her look at other ways they can give it a go without moving in. There’s a reason why they’re apart (I’m not particularly getting that she’s played the system- lives are complicated). My db and his wife live separately - believe me it makes no sense financially running 2 homes! But the blended family dynamics were going drastically wrong).

So they were enough of a couple to have sex but not for the purposes of benefits?

Not sure I’d be “ecstatic” about having to get a council house paid for by those of us who work

Surely she only needs to give him one perfectly good and obvious reason why he can’t move in - that they’re not in a relationship

Agree with others, it sounds pretty obvious this was the plan all along, to claim as a lone parent until housing was provided and then suddenly decide to “get back together.”

@notfromstepford

His idea is that if he moves in (they don't live together now) they can make another go of it for the sake of the children. That's making her feel guilty. But I've told her this house is for her and her children. Not for him to decide it's actually nicer than where he's living now (and to his mind rent-free) so it'll be in his interests to "try again".

So they don't want to miraculously get back together - he wants to get back together if that makes sense.

Well then surely this isn't about moving in, this is about her not wanting to get back together - she just needs to say no

Sorry to keep posting - this has really struck a cord with me. Please do whatever you can to convince her not to move this unreliable, drinking man who spends all his cash on himself in. It will give the kids the opposite of stability.

I see her very much as the victim or potential victim of a shitty man here, not a player of the system.

Unfortunately many of the women I’ve seen prosecuted for benefit fraud were essentially victims of the same. It doesn’t cut any ice when you come to be prosecuted that your boyfeiend wasn’t giving you money - unless there’s actual duress (threats of violence etc) to fill in the forms / not inform the authorities of the truth, they don’t care if he’s unreliable.

I don't know why you are looking for information on how benefits will be affected if your daughter is not interested in having a relationship with her children's father anyway. Surely you should be supporting her to move in on her own and tell him that he will not be moving in with her?

So this isn't really about benefits at all, but your DSDs relationship with her children's father. He sounds like a waste of space who absolutely will not support his family financially at all. She needs to decide whether she wants him living with her 'for the sake of the children' resulting in the loss of all her benefits, removing her financial security and rendering her reliant on this 'somewhat unreliable' man, or whether she wishes to go forward as a single parent, with her own Council house, and the benefits she is entitled to, being in charge of her own life and reliant on no one.
I would recommend she does the latter, he really is not going to change. The children will be fine. But it is very likely none of them will be fine if he moves in, she needs to cut this man loose and she doesn't need an excuse to do so

Did he become an unreliable drinker after she chose to have a second child with him then? (let alone the first, but accidents happen and some people won’t terminate)

Of course she shouldn’t let him move in though.

He is only after a free place to live while he pisses all HIS money up the wall and she takes all the risks of being prosecuted, which she very likely would be. The council and benefits people are shit hot at tracking these cases down despite what some folk on here believe. The days of getting away with that particular scenario for very long are gone, mainly down to modern technology.

It's always the women who get caught too. The type of men who are keen on this aren't stupid enough to be the ones shoving their names on benefit claims, loans and the rent account. They walk offscott free when the shit hits the fan.

She needs to tell him to go fuck himself.

So your DD wasn't with him which is why she got benefits? How come then that she is having another child by him? Did he send his sperm to her in the post? How come she is having a second child whilst currently on benefits. Does she realise that being on benefits is not a lifestyle choice? Does she realise benefits are paid thanks to people working and paying tax? It's there for those in temporary need.

It's disgraceful and your DD obviously has zero self respect.

He's an arse trying to mooch off her by guilt tripping her re the children.

She needs to tell him no, no she doesn't want to try again and no, she won't commit benefit fraud by him living there but her still claiming. She should tell him that even if she wanted him back, which she doesn't, he would be expected to pay £X per month, in advance, no excuses because she would have no intention of getting a criminal record in order to give him a free ride.

She should let him move in with her and tell the council so that her benefits can be stopped. That way it's a win for everyone, the kids get a home with both parents, the guy will have to grow up and she will not be having to rely on state handouts.

@MissBaskinIfYoureNasty

I can see why people get frustrated by people like this. Your daughter and her partner took advantage of the system to get a house and now miraculously they want to get back together.

Exactly this

As a single mother who was made homeless through domestic abuse and has given up trying to find suitable housing (therefore have regressed back to living with my parents) this really pisses me off.

Just going on the info provided. Not guaranteed etc etc. You should use benefit calculator listed above or ones on Entitled To or Better Off for more detailed calculation -

Your DSD with 2 children on her own would get just over £900 plus housing costs (assuming social housing) per month.
If partner moves in, taking £350 per week net income, the UC would be around £150 plus housing costs per month.

Just a couple of points. She's not my daughter, she's my step-daughter. She's not played the system. She's messed up. She's feeling guilty. I agree - she should just say no and fuck him off once and for all. I'm trying to help her do that.