To sign up at the surgery as ‘Dr’

[Chocolatebutton43]

I got my PhD two months ago, moved to a new place and signed up to a new doctor’s surgery and dental practice.

Filling in the forms, I got a bit carried away with my new title and ticked the ‘dr’ box! I’ve been doing it a lot lately for silly little things partly ‘cause I’m just happy to have finished and passed my degree and also because I relish that I am no longer defined by my marital status.

But, I now need to visit the surgery and I feel like an idiot. The form also had occupation so the doctor will know I’m not a medical doctor. Is he/she going to think I am a total prat for using Dr outside my work and at the doctor’s surgery of all places? Cringe

@RattleOfBars

What evidence do you have that universities are corrupt?

I’ve worked in enough to know. For example a friend of mine was told she was not allowed to fail overseas Masters students (because of the much higher fees they pay that fund the uni). This sort of thing IME goes on a lot in some universities.

The difference with medical degrees is you’re rigorously assessed constantly, not just on theory and research but in practical exams and placements and even after qualifying you’re assessed constantly on rotation by senior doctors.

Many (not all) PhDs require a thesis and a viva to pass.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Universities often make much of their income from overseas students (who pay extortionate tuition fees to study in the UK) so it makes sense they don’t want to deter overseas applicants. A guess a high fail would put off future applicants?

I've worked in HE for 20 years. I know how the funding system works.
Interestingly, I was commended by my external examiner for failing students. It demonstrated high standards and robust marking and moderation processes.

Really @RattleOfBars? You have multiple close acquaintances who have left academia and told you that they did so specifically because they believe that degrees are handed out unfairly?

Or you know of a friend of a friend who used to be a lecturer who once commented at a dinner party that some students were being handed easy passes?

@MilerVino

Well, whilst we're still arguing, this blog on Dr Ross Geller and the anti-intellectualism of Friends is good gen.medium.com/how-a-tv-sitcom-triggered-the-downfall-of-western-civilization-336e8ccf7dd0 Don't panic, it is a bit tongue in cheek. That said, I think it makes a valid point about how wrong the friends were in the criticism of Ross as 'not a real doctor'.

Thanks, really enjoyed that.

You have multiple close acquaintances who have left academia and told you that they did so specifically because they believe that degrees are handed out unfairly?

Yes, it’s quite sad really.
Nearly all our friends have PhDs, and most taught Masters students while studying part time for their PhD. We lived together in Graduate Halls then house-shared for years.
Only a couple are still lecturing or involved with academia.

I find your ‘dinner party friend of a friend’ suggestion rather rude.

Universities often make much of their income from overseas students (who pay extortionate tuition fees to study in the UK) so it makes sense they don’t want to deter overseas applicants. A guess a high fail would put off future applicants?

The overseas students come here to study for the high standard of the degrees and to improve their English (although it already has to be good to be accepted on most courses). If you devalue degrees by making them easy to pass, you nix the first reason for them to trek here.

This is direct experience not hearsay. Many of my friends have left academia because they disagree with certain aspects of it or feel degrees are handed out unfairly.

You do realise the second sentence contradicts the first? It's not your direct experience, it's the experience of your friends.

@RattleOfBars

The problem with that is it's quite possible she felt uncomfortable because you were asking her to pretend he had a job status he didn't yet have. Lots of people are Dr Smith, PhD in English Lit, without having yet got a lectureship.

He was employed as a lecturer though, teaching at a uni. It was the way she announced she was engaged ‘to a doctor’ that threw us. If she’d said ‘I’m engaged to a university lecturer, he’s got a PhD in English Literature’ nobody would have laughed or been confused or felt awkward. We wouldn’t have thought any less highly of her based on his profession. But I’m guessing she thought ‘doctor’ had a better ring to it. Which came across as a bit pretentious. It was only her sister who laughed, for the record!

Of COURSE that was the way it went. Anyone with an iota of common sense would acknowledge that.

She wanted to big the guy up and bask in his reflected glory. As you say, it’s fine that he has a doctorate and I’m sure everyone in the company would have thought that too. However, to say he was “a doctor” she reckoned would be more impressive because well, you know, medical doctors are highly regarded by people, generally. They help to heal people etc, for heaven’s sake.

It’s quite a telling tale...

No problem @CheetasOnFajitas it was one of the things that really bugged me about Friends, which I otherwise thought was pretty good. You might also like this Amy vs Sheldon argument about whose science is better www.gentlemornings.com/tv-shows-and-movies/amy-v-sheldon-is-neuroscience-or-theoretical-physics-the-better-research/

Especially good for the line about defecating Clerk Maxwell.

However, to say he was “a doctor” she reckoned would be more impressive because well, you know, medical doctors are highly regarded by people, generally.

You really think she was pretending he was an actual medical doctor? How long do you think she’d have been able to keep that up?

@MilerVino

Well, whilst we're still arguing, this blog on Dr Ross Geller and the anti-intellectualism of Friends is good gen.medium.com/how-a-tv-sitcom-triggered-the-downfall-of-western-civilization-336e8ccf7dd0 Don't panic, it is a bit tongue in cheek. That said, I think it makes a valid point about how wrong the friends were in the criticism of Ross as 'not a real doctor'.

Thanks for this. It's really interesting. It's always bothered me!

As you say, it’s fine that he has a doctorate and I’m sure everyone in the company would have thought that too.

Ah, good, we have agreement.
The title 'Dr' literally denotes 'someone with a doctorate'. Most such people are perfectly ok with it having been widened to include others who are 'a doctor' as a courtesy and by common usage.

So, the only problem with using the title is ignorance - medics will know what the title means, and for others any confusion is easily dispelled.

Why are some posters so defensive about the universities at which they work? It couldn’t be that they wish the institutions were more illustrious, could it? Do they wish they could slip into a conversation that they taught at a Russell Group or at one of the Ancients, is that it?! No, surely not...

@CheetasOnFajitas

However, to say he was “a doctor” she reckoned would be more impressive because well, you know, medical doctors are highly regarded by people, generally.

You really think she was pretending he was an actual medical doctor? How long do you think she’d have been able to keep that up?

She most certainly was! It was about first impressions. Laughable. The point is, of course, she wanted to impress and a medical doctor is waaaaay more impressive - as we probably all know but do not wish to admit!

@RattleOfBars

You have multiple close acquaintances who have left academia and told you that they did so specifically because they believe that degrees are handed out unfairly?

Yes, it’s quite sad really.
Nearly all our friends have PhDs, and most taught Masters students while studying part time for their PhD. We lived together in Graduate Halls then house-shared for years.
Only a couple are still lecturing or involved with academia.

I find your ‘dinner party friend of a friend’ suggestion rather rude.

Great. We look forward to your friends joining this thread and telling us directly that everyone single one of them left academia because it is corrupt. I imagine that with so many of them having experienced this they have probably formed some sort of campaign group?

Until then you’ll have to forgive us for not accepting your convenient second account.

(My own postgraduate and continuing professional training is quite heavily focused on the nature and credibility of evidence..)

Nearly all our friends have PhDs, and most taught Masters students while studying part time for their PhD. We lived together in Graduate Halls then house-shared for years.
Only a couple are still lecturing or involved with academia.

There are more people with PhDs than there are available lectureships. It's the nature of the beast that many people trained to postgraduate level don't gain that elusive lectureship. It would be more unusual if all your friends had made it within the university system - it's very tough to do so. That's not to detract from their achievements or subsequent careers, just to flag up that there might be other factors.

Some people are like little terriers with a bone!

@Janegrey333 you weren’t there! You’ve superimposed your own interpretation on to someone else’s anecdote and are now saying it as fact.

Why are some posters so defensive about the universities at which they work?

Er... because they're deeply involved in and care about education? Whereas tbh you appear to be playing a chain-yanking, point-scoring game of some sort... the 'why' of that maybe isn't worth pondering.

@Janegrey333

Some people are like little terriers with a bone!

Said the pot....

Ahahaha this has got even better!

Certain individuals are either wilfully trolling, or really quite incapable of understanding very basic things.

@Janegrey333 you might want to dial down the stirring a bit. If you go back to around a 6 you might get away with it. Turning it up to 11 is a bit of a giveaway.

The point is, of course, she wanted to impress and a medical doctor is waaaaay more impressive

Oddly enough I've never come across a medical doctor who seemed to think that. It's generally a position of mutual respect, isn't it?

@Janegrey333

Why are some posters so defensive about the universities at which they work? It couldn’t be that they wish the institutions were more illustrious, could it? Do they wish they could slip into a conversation that they taught at a Russell Group or at one of the Ancients, is that it?! No, surely not...

Hahahahaha yes of course. This is exactly it 🙄

On the Friends/Ross article, one thing I would say (and I referenced this ages ago in this thread re the hospital scene when I said the joke was on Rachel, not Ross) is that I always saw it as being a joke about how stupid the other friends were, not that he audience was supposed to buy into the mocking or belittling of Ross. I always imagined him happily talking shop offscreen with his colleagues at the University and in some ways I think they were possibly trying to demystify and humanise academics by showing they could hang out with non-academic people and have fun. But the “friends” always were very harsh towards his academic girlfriends I suppose - I liked Julie!

@RattleOfBars

The problem with that is it's quite possible she felt uncomfortable because you were asking her to pretend he had a job status he didn't yet have. Lots of people are Dr Smith, PhD in English Lit, without having yet got a lectureship.

He was employed as a lecturer though, teaching at a uni. It was the way she announced she was engaged ‘to a doctor’ that threw us. If she’d said ‘I’m engaged to a university lecturer, he’s got a PhD in English Literature’ nobody would have laughed or been confused or felt awkward. We wouldn’t have thought any less highly of her based on his profession. But I’m guessing she thought ‘doctor’ had a better ring to it. Which came across as a bit pretentious. It was only her sister who laughed, for the record!

How odd. I think most people would assume a lecturer had a PhD. They don't all, but it's the norm and it's a lower level of achievement than actually being a lecturer.

(Btw, you can be employed to teach and lecture and still not have a lectureship/be entitled to call yourself 'lecturer'. Where I used to work 'university lecturer' was quite a prestigious role, compared to people who were lecturing and teaching in other contexts.)