To sign up at the surgery as ‘Dr’

[Chocolatebutton43]

I got my PhD two months ago, moved to a new place and signed up to a new doctor’s surgery and dental practice.

Filling in the forms, I got a bit carried away with my new title and ticked the ‘dr’ box! I’ve been doing it a lot lately for silly little things partly ‘cause I’m just happy to have finished and passed my degree and also because I relish that I am no longer defined by my marital status.

But, I now need to visit the surgery and I feel like an idiot. The form also had occupation so the doctor will know I’m not a medical doctor. Is he/she going to think I am a total prat for using Dr outside my work and at the doctor’s surgery of all places? Cringe

I've been following this with interest because I hope to finish my PhD soon (🤞🏽🤞🏽) and am really looking forward to using my new title.

I don't really understand why women say it's a good alternative to Miss/Mrs. Although I'm married I have never used Mrs at all. Don't most women use Ms nowadays?

There have been threads on here before about this topic and some of them have lots of posts from people saying it's vulgar to use Dr if you have a PhD because they're 10 apenny nowadays. I remember a mumsnetter saying she had two phDs and she never mentioned it. It made me feel unsophisticated and gauche for even considering using a title in future.

OP I think you should use your title proudly whenever you want to. And I plan to as well!

I don't really understand why women say it's a good alternative to Miss/Mrs. Although I'm married I have never used Mrs at all. Don't most women use Ms nowadays?

In my case it's a function of age. But some people are still tediously weird about Ms. However, the other real benefit of Dr is that it doesn't announce your sex. It's quite well established that there is a bias against exactly the same communication if the recipient perceives it as coming from a woman rather than a man. 'Dr' with no other clues is liable to be assumed to default to male.

I quite often sign myself Dr. M. Vino just to see what reaction I get. They pretty much always assume I'm a man. As for using Ms - it's not that common IME. In fact some major retailers have forms that only allow Mr/Mrs/Miss.

I don't really understand why women say it's a good alternative to Miss/Mrs. Although I'm married I have never used Mrs at all. Don't most women use Ms nowadays?

It’s actually very noticeable the switch in attitudes, usually in men, when you are asked if you are Miss or Mrs and reply Dr. You can almost hear their brains adjusting from talking to a female with brains stuffed with sparkles and pink girly things to a person probably more intelligent than they are. Especially with salesmen who’ve realised they’ve been trying to bullshit someone who has likely seen through it all.

Doesn’t happen nowadays with applepay and whatnot but back when I was dating DH, and I paid, they always looked at the name, and gave the card to Dh.

*The difference with medical degrees is you’re rigorously assessed constantly, not just on theory and research but in practical exams and placements and even after qualifying you’re assessed constantly on rotation by senior doctors.

Many (not all) PhDs require a thesis and a viva to pass.*

The exact same principles apply to the UK Doctorate in Clinical Psychology. Again, medics are not a "holy grail" of achievement and therefore more deserving of the Dr title. Other professionals are held to the same rigorously assessed standards requiring placement passes, PhD level research, and a viva to pass.

There was a poster upthread who talked about being approached on a flight back from a big conference and the cabin crew having to work their way down a big list of “Drs” who were all academics. She did not, however, report any difficulty or embarrassment with simply saying “no, I’m not a medical doctor”.

You have completely missed the point. It’s not about the embarrassment of a long list of people having to convey to flight attendants that they are experts in 17th century basket weaving or even indeed 20th century Covid vaccine research. It’s about the time taken for the flight attendants having to wade through the list of people who are of no use until they strike someone who is and the detrimental effect that stuffing around has had on the patient. Similarly if you are a medical professional and wish to indicate this on your booking I believe it would be useful for airlines to include a field corresponding to what you actually do to optimise patient care even further should there be a medical emergency on the flight but they don’t seem to be that organised.

I'd be somewhat curious to know how a thread 'should I use Dr' would go on a male dominated forum. It's a more 'political' issue for women, I think.

My perception is that too many women still suffer from 'imposter syndrome' and false modesty. I think it's actually quite important for women to be upfront about qualifications, professional status etc - normalising all women as full equals, and not the second sex to be condescended to.

Similarly if you are a medical professional and wish to indicate this on your booking I believe it would be useful for airlines to include a field corresponding to what you actually do to optimise patient care even further should there be a medical emergency on the flight but they don’t seem to be that organised.

Yes... I'm sure there are many instances where a paramedic or A&E nurse would be more useful than many types of specialist medic or even GPs.

My perception is that too many women still suffer from 'imposter syndrome' and false modesty. I think it's actually quite important for women to be upfront about qualifications, professional status etc - normalising all women as full equals, and not the second sex to be condescended to.

I could not agree more.
I sit on my university's Athena Swan committee which was primarily set up to promote equality for women in academia and this has been recognised as an issue.

Worryingly, the whole pandemic situation is having a detrimental effect on women across all sectors but specifically in academia. Since March the number of journal articles submitted by men has increased but the number submitted by women has decreased significantly.

It’s about the time taken for the flight attendants having to wade through the list of people who are of no use until they strike someone who is and the detrimental effect that stuffing around has had on the patient

So why only look for dr’s? There may be Paramedics, specialist trauma nurses, many police officers have advance life saving training, army medics on board who may be better suited to an emergency than a GP nearing retirement, or a dermatologist who hasn’t dealt with emergent care since 1970.

*I'd be somewhat curious to know how a thread 'should I use Dr' would go on a male dominated forum. It's a more 'political' issue for women, I think.

My perception is that too many women still suffer from 'imposter syndrome' and false modesty. I think it's actually quite important for women to be upfront about qualifications, professional status etc - normalising all women as full equals, and not the second sex to be condescended to.*

The opposite is true of my profession - it is a heavily female dominated profession and some male colleagues who I've worked with over the years often talk about feeling a little "out of place" when they gain a place on the training course. I trained at uni in a cohort of 14 women (from around 60+ men and women who were interviewed for those 14 places). In the years above and below me there were a couple of men - there's often this idea of the "token male" in a mostly female cohort. I don't know why it's the case, but it's much more common to come across a female Dr in my professional world than a man.

You have completely missed the point. It’s not about the embarrassment of a long list of people having to convey to flight attendants that they are experts in 17th century basket weaving or even indeed 20th century Covid vaccine research. It’s about the time taken for the flight attendants having to wade through the list of people who are of no use until they strike someone who is and the detrimental effect that stuffing around has had on the patient. Similarly if you are a medical professional and wish to indicate this on your booking I believe it would be useful for airlines to include a field corresponding to what you actually do to optimise patient care even further should there be a medical emergency on the flight but they don’t seem to be that organised.

Don't be ridiculous. If there is a medical emergency on board they are not going to waste time going through the flight list. They make an announcement asking if there are any medical doctors on board who can help. Having travelled with a medical doctor, I know that they also sometimes ask when that person boards a flight if they are medical Dr. Why would they wait for an emergency to do it?!

And interestingly, in contrast, the consultant medics we work alongside are far more likely to be male... 🤷‍♀️

That's probably an outlier case though, Lou. Those men may be particularly discombobulated because they're accustomed to being the 'default sex'. Women in the that position would (I think) be less likely to mention it.

@LouJ85

And interestingly, in contrast, the consultant medics we work alongside are far more likely to be male... 🤷‍♀️

A bit like the ratios of teachers in general v SLT?

@ErrolTheDragon

That's probably an outlier case though, Lou. Those men may be particularly discombobulated because they're accustomed to being the 'default sex'. Women in the that position would (I think) be less likely to mention it.

Yes, definitely an outlier I'm sure. It's nice to be in a profession of relatively high and respected status that is female dominated, I suppose. Makes a nice change

It’s about the time taken for the flight attendants having to wade through the list of people who are of no use until they strike someone who is and the detrimental effect that stuffing around has had on the patient.

Oh if only there were some sort of onboard communication system via which flight attendants could state that they needed medical assistance for someone. Flicking through a list of titles just isn't going to cut it, given that many medical doctors might choose not to use the title Dr when flying. And don't get me started on what happens should someone be looking for a surgeon via the title 'Dr'.

@ErrolTheDragon I would have expected both to be more female orientated, but I could be wrong... ? Certainly the SLTs I've worked with (not educational settings) have been overwhelmingly female. Is teaching a male dominated profession overall? That surprises me...

[quote LouJ85]@ErrolTheDragon I would have expected both to be more female orientated, but I could be wrong... ? Certainly the SLTs I've worked with (not educational settings) have been overwhelmingly female. Is teaching a male dominated profession overall? That surprises me... [/quote]
Teaching is female dominated; it's the ratios which differ at different levels. I don't offhand know the actual numbers but it's the common scenariowhere whatever the F:M ratio is in a profession at all levels, the F:M ratio in senior management is lower.

Is teaching a male dominated profession overall? That surprises me...

Teaching is a female dominated profession but there are more males in leadership positions. I work in an education faculty and we have more female lecturers but the vast majority of our SLT is male.

Article on in-flight medical emergencies

Within this article there is a section entitled “Is there a doctor on board? which talks about interesting schemes some airlines have put in place to incentivise medical doctors to declare themselves pre-emptively. It also points out that even if a person is a medical doctor the crew is need to understand the limits of that person’s skills and experience”. With that in mind, I am not sure that simply going down the manifest alphabetically is necessarily the right approach, although there are of course implications in terms of alarming passengers and drawing attention to the emergency if you make a tannoy request. I suspect that in the case of the person who believes the crew had been working their way down a list of other academic doctors before they got to her, it was not an emergency that was so critical they needed a doctor very quickly to save a life. Crew are all trained in that sort of immediate care anyway- CPR, using the defibrillator etc, plus they also have the Med Link/MedicAire ground helpline (also described in the article) immediately on hand and are trained in how to describe the situation to them.

Experiences of medics called upon to help on flights

Lots of anecdotes here, it’s notable that none describes being approached due to their name being down as “Dr X” on the manifest. The majority are tannoy call outs, a few directly witnessed the emergency and one told crew on boarding that he was a doctor.

So why only look for dr’s? There may be Paramedics, specialist trauma nurses, many police officers have advance life saving training, army medics on board who may be better suited to an emergency than a GP nearing retirement, or a dermatologist who hasn’t dealt with emergent care since 1970.

Well, this was answered by my paragraph directly after the one you gave quoted. Airlines should have a field for this so if you feel inclined to help should the issue arise they know who is best to call on re priority of usefulness. So as you say a specialist trauma nurse will generally be far more useful than ‘just’ a GP or dermatologist (yep, no apologies there - context). Similarly, an emergency care specialist or intensivist would probably be better than the specialist trauma nurse (unless they are ‘snoozing’ after squiffing too much free booze). But airlines have no idea on actual cascade of usefulness as they don’t bother with this aspect with bookings. I’m guessing if they exhaust the list of Dr’s though that’s when they put out a call as I have heard this now and again. So if a paramedic or army medic felt so inclined they could put their hand up but definitely better for patient if best placed people can be identified straight up.

I also once had them put a dead passenger next to me. They asked if I minded and shuffled my neighbour off (prob to first class ). Fine by me as not like they were going to disturb me for the next 12hrs. Again, you get some stupid meaningless credit that’s hardly an incentive for your troubles but not really a trouble at all as they really are the ideal flight neighbour.

Lots of anecdotes here, it’s notable that none describes being approached due to their name being down as “Dr X” on the manifest. The majority are tannoy call outs, a few directly witnessed the emergency and one told crew on boarding that he was a doctor.

Except I did say this had happened to me on every single flight I was on to the point I no longer put the title on the booking for past decade ........ Since then have also experienced it happen to a colleague sitting next to me not too long pre-Covid.

I’m guessing if they exhaust the list of Dr’s though that’s when they put out a call as I have heard this now and again. So if a paramedic or army medic felt so inclined they could put their hand up but definitely better for patient if best placed people can be identified straight up.

Clearly not always, if you read the last link I posted, because those who responded to the calls were doctors. I suppose it’s possible that none of them were travelling under the title “Dr” but unlikely.

Also the article I posted before talked about steps taken by some airlines to encourage medically trained passengers to identify themselves.