To sign up at the surgery as ‘Dr’

[Chocolatebutton43]

I got my PhD two months ago, moved to a new place and signed up to a new doctor’s surgery and dental practice.

Filling in the forms, I got a bit carried away with my new title and ticked the ‘dr’ box! I’ve been doing it a lot lately for silly little things partly ‘cause I’m just happy to have finished and passed my degree and also because I relish that I am no longer defined by my marital status.

But, I now need to visit the surgery and I feel like an idiot. The form also had occupation so the doctor will know I’m not a medical doctor. Is he/she going to think I am a total prat for using Dr outside my work and at the doctor’s surgery of all places? Cringe

But for every humanity based job how many engineers are there making their lives possible.... and how many scientists underpinning those.....

Oh of course!!!
I just get frustrated when arts and humanities subjects are disregarded and described as useless!

When I worked in schools I used to a great activity which asked the kids to consider all the different roles involved in making trainers. It was a pretty long list! It even involved arts students 😉

@OhTheRoses

Crikey, just recalled the funding award that made my stomach churn. Impact of Dance on post genocidal Rwanda! How many dinners might that have provided?

I do understand where you're coming from, but it's not necessarily food that's lacking when a person or a society is seriously traumatised. It might seem silly to talk about dance, but if dance is what helps someone who's been through something that awful, I don't think the rest of us should judge? I know we might like to imagine we'd be the hard-as-nails types who came through genocide and needed nothing more than a good square meal to get over it, but the reality is that we don't know. Most people don't recover from experiences like that just because they're given enough food. They really do need extra help, and often they need thoughtful, creative help - it's not like treating someone who's feeling a mild case of the blues, is it?!

Until recently, I worked as a HCP and had many patients with a Dr title.

I would never presume they were a medical Dr. And sometimes after a bit of chit chat it might have become apparent what kind of Dr they were.

I would admire anyone with a Dr title as they've obviously worked hard and are experts at their doctorate subject. If I had that dedication, I wouldn't hide it.

The problem is @SarahAndQuack whilst you are right I'm not sure those directly involved were as noble and I'm not sure the impact of the work made as much of a difference for Rwanda as it did for CVs and a potential REF submission. I pure terms you are so actually right. In practical terms I think it's much more complicated and not as altruistic as it appears.

@OhTheRoses

The problem is *@SarahAndQuack* whilst you are right I'm not sure those directly involved were as noble and I'm not sure the impact of the work made as much of a difference for Rwanda as it did for CVs and a potential REF submission. I pure terms you are so actually right. In practical terms I think it's much more complicated and not as altruistic as it appears.

Oh, sure, that's always the worry.

I’d probably feel like this (if I ever did a phd) but you really shouldn’t and well done!

This thread is so very MN. Everyone trying to out Dr each other.

Really? No one needs a doctorate to research and be good within a profession, but it is a useful vehicle for that research and provides some recognition of contribution within a field. I do not consider my career a hobby or the fact that the doctorate helped me in that career. I am sorry I made the mistake of looking back in on the thread now.

Meh, I'm an accountant as I still use Dr - haven't done any science for 20 years. It took 4 years to get and I quite like having a title that doesn't reveal my sex or marital status (I never liked Ms). If so many bloody internet order and application forms didn't require a title to be entered I wouldn't bother using anything.

@OhTheRoses

Crikey, just recalled the funding award that made my stomach churn. Impact of Dance on post genocidal Rwanda! How many dinners might that have provided?

There are no words.

The problem is @SarahAndQuack whilst you are right I'm not sure those directly involved were as noble and I'm not sure the impact of the work made as much of a difference for Rwanda as it did for CVs and a potential REF submission. I pure terms you are so actually right. In practical terms I think it's much more complicated and not as altruistic as it appears

Or you have a group who work with such people and need to pay for their costs. If a research grant will pay for it why not use it? Likely they collect data anyway, and if the results are positive it will open doors for further funding of such work. If negative then no one else will waste any more money.

Even Science research doesn’t hand out PhD funding for the fun of it. It benefits the lab as a whole, funds equipment, staff etc. Labs are run on grants and every one contributes.

Generally when you apply for funding it’s an extensive process outlining why it’s needed and the benefits.

What evidence do you have that universities are corrupt?

I’ve worked in enough to know. For example a friend of mine was told she was not allowed to fail overseas Masters students (because of the much higher fees they pay that fund the uni). This sort of thing IME goes on a lot in some universities.

The difference with medical degrees is you’re rigorously assessed constantly, not just on theory and research but in practical exams and placements and even after qualifying you’re assessed constantly on rotation by senior doctors.

Many (not all) PhDs require a thesis and a viva to pass.

The difference with medical degrees is you’re rigorously assessed constantly, not just on theory and research but in practical exams and placements and even after qualifying you’re assessed constantly on rotation by senior doctors

It’s been a few years since I worked in hospitals but IME even if dr’s are shite they are still allowed to continue working. There are no real consequences, perhaps “retraining”, but once you get that medical school place you’re a dr for as long as you want.

I’ve known medical students found using class a drugs and fail- consequences resit the year and “stop using drugs”.

I’ve known frankly incompetent dr’s- if noticed they usually get promoted to a management role where there’s less patient contact. Or they are moved to a different trust.

People can, and are regularly failed at PhD viva’s. It’s rare someone passes without corrections. A three hour grilling on your thesis by a university representative and a top academic in your field is “rigourous”.

The problem with that is it's quite possible she felt uncomfortable because you were asking her to pretend he had a job status he didn't yet have. Lots of people are Dr Smith, PhD in English Lit, without having yet got a lectureship.

He was employed as a lecturer though, teaching at a uni. It was the way she announced she was engaged ‘to a doctor’ that threw us. If she’d said ‘I’m engaged to a university lecturer, he’s got a PhD in English Literature’ nobody would have laughed or been confused or felt awkward. We wouldn’t have thought any less highly of her based on his profession. But I’m guessing she thought ‘doctor’ had a better ring to it. Which came across as a bit pretentious. It was only her sister who laughed, for the record!

You are a Dr! I don't believe the title is specifically for medical doctors?
You earned your title and deserve it! Your choice to use it or not (I would!) but it's not silly.

I’ve worked in enough to know. For example a friend of mine was told she was not allowed to fail overseas Masters students (because of the much higher fees they pay that fund the uni). This sort of thing IME goes on a lot in some universities.

Have you witnessed it directly or is this just hearsay? I've also worked at a number of universities and have been directly involved in validation, assessment, moderation and exam boards and have never witnessed this. I'm also an external examiner and work with other external examiners and have never heard of this happening.
Students fail if they don't complete the work or if it's not to to the correct standard.

Your example doesn't even make sense - it's not like universities have to refund fees if students fail!

The difference with medical degrees is you’re rigorously assessed constantly, not just on theory and research but in practical exams and placements and even after qualifying you’re assessed constantly on rotation by senior doctors.

Again, this is not exclusive to the medical profession. Take out the words medical and doctor and your just described the course I run!

Many (not all) PhDs require a thesis and a viva to pass.

Well yes, of course they do and if you think that's a walk in the park then you're very much mistaken.

You're trying to compare apples and oranges here though.
Just acknowledging that a PhD is an achievement doesn't take away the fact gaining a medical degree is an also an achievement.

You may be right re some taught Masters degrees, but we're discussing PhDs which are an entirely different matter.

• The difference with medical degrees is you’re rigorously assessed constantly, not just on theory and research but in practical exams and placements and even after qualifying you’re assessed constantly on rotation by senior doctors.

Many (not all) PhDs require a thesis and a viva to pass.*

Apples and oranges ... a medical degree, and the bulk of STEM undergrad degrees, there is defined content or skills you must learn to qualify.

A PhD is a research qualification. It's meant to be new, and performed with some degree of independence (that varies according to the project, it may be standalone or part of a wider project). Clearly the assessment methods have to be fundamentally different. A science PhD student, apart from the thesis, will usually contribute to published peer reviewed papers...scrutinised by experts in the field.

I use my PhD (science) professionally and for some of my bank accounts but not generally in day to day life. Although it was a long time ago, I remember my viva in particular and am proud of what I achieved, as I’m sure you are. Congratulations!

Just acknowledging that a PhD is an achievement doesn't take away the fact gaining a medical degree is an also an achievement.

Quite. It’s bizarre, isn’t it? The suggestion seems to be that by using their rightfully-earned title “Doctor”, people with non-medical PhDs are somehow diminishing the status of medical doctors, hoodwinking the public into thinking they are real doctors and claiming more intellectual ability than they actually have. This is somehow based on the idea that “the public” (including aircraft cabin crew, GP receptionists, school gate parents) can’t get their heads around the concept of “Doctor” meaning more than one thing.

It’s funny because the only time I really care whether or not someone is a medical doctor is when they are treating me and there is absolutely zero evidence that any PhD doctors have both called themselves doctor and attempted to treat patients. It is utterly irrelevant that the odd person might mistakenly THINK they had the skills to do so.
Nobody goes around complaining that the BT “engineer” who came to fix their wifi can’t design a suspension bridge.

But you are a Dr, you have worked bloody hard for it, why shouldn’t you use it. Dr isn’t just reserved for just a GP. Use it OP, I would.

Nobody goes around complaining that the BT “engineer” who came to fix their wifi can’t design a suspension bridge.

This, so well put!

Nobody goes around complaining that the BT “engineer” who came to fix their wifi can’t design a suspension bridge.

Brilliant

Well, whilst we're still arguing, this blog on Dr Ross Geller and the anti-intellectualism of Friends is good gen.medium.com/how-a-tv-sitcom-triggered-the-downfall-of-western-civilization-336e8ccf7dd0 Don't panic, it is a bit tongue in cheek. That said, I think it makes a valid point about how wrong the friends were in the criticism of Ross as 'not a real doctor'.

Your example doesn't even make sense - it's not like universities have to refund fees if students fail!

Universities often make much of their income from overseas students (who pay extortionate tuition fees to study in the UK) so it makes sense they don’t want to deter overseas applicants. A guess a high fail would put off future applicants?
This is direct experience not hearsay. Many of my friends have left academia because they disagree with certain aspects of it or feel degrees are handed out unfairly.

@RattleOfBars

Your example doesn't even make sense - it's not like universities have to refund fees if students fail!

Universities often make much of their income from overseas students (who pay extortionate tuition fees to study in the UK) so it makes sense they don’t want to deter overseas applicants. A guess a high fail would put off future applicants?
This is direct experience not hearsay. Many of my friends have left academia because they disagree with certain aspects of it or feel degrees are handed out unfairly.

Wish we had a Like button here.

Good post - tick.